Baking Soda

[C. Morrison]

Clacker, Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, a mild safe alkali powder.

Soda ash is sodium carbonate a very strong alkali that can burn you. 1 US ounce can raise the PH of a 5,000 gallon swimming pool 1 full point.
Be safe my friend.

[clacker]

Clacker, Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, a mild safe alkali powder.

Soda ash is sodium carbonate a very strong alkali that can burn you. 1 US ounce can raise the PH of a 5,000 gallon swimming pool 1 full point.
Be safe my friend.

Thanks for that, I'll be careful with the stuff.

I was more concerned on whether there may be other chemicals in with the Sodium Carbonate but seems like it's OK.

[bukowski]

hi guys, one experience from me about using baking soda;

i have an un-modified chinese air still and it is made for distilling water. i used 1 tbsp per 2 liter of mash and had a stripping run the result was awful even after filtering with carbon for four times, i think the reason was, baking soda started to produce excessive amount of CO2 when the boiling started and mash is spitted with alcohol.

hence, if you are using an air still stick with table salt only, avoid baking soda or use it very carefully... maybe half filling the boiler...

cheers.

[Dnderhead]

"What does baking soda taste like?"
salty,from the sodium.

[Pop Skull]

It's abit more pricey, but potassium carbonate (K2CO3) doesnt have the same salty taste, and performs the same function as Na2C03.

I've used it for acid adjustment in wine before - for wines it can still cause some off flavors, though not sure what it would do to a wash.

[astronomical]

NEVER put baking soda in anything that hasn't already been distilled. Id say that at least 10% of these posts were made by "ancy" novices who are clueless. A good rule of thumb on HD is to read the whole thread. There is usually a lot of misinformation from people who choose not to read whats written. Trust the solutions posted by people who have made thousands of posts. Its painful to sort through the BS, but, at least you wont make those same mistakes (We'd hope).

[Goose]

from ancy novice who is clueless...

I've been using 250g of baking soda to my low wines charge, in 20 litre runs. The "low" wines are in fact 85% abv from the "stripping" run which I dilute with tapwater to 40% abv.

After adding the baking soda I can notice no discernible smell after dissolving it in. However after column stabilisation at 100% reflux, when I commence product drawoff the heads I collect definitely have an acrid smell and taste to them, ammonia like, but the distillate is crystal clear and definitely no hint of any blue colouration. My rig is 100% copper, I would add. This acrid character disappears completely after collection of a bit more than a litre (after collecting 250-300 mls of foreshots) which I am retaining for an all feints run at a later time. Its the disappearance of this acrid smell that determines for me the point where I have taken all the heads and hearts can commence. I do have trouble still discerning when the tails begin, for that I can only judge on volume of hearts collected and when my vapour temperature begins to increase. However I digress...

After my run is finished and I lift the column off the boiler, what remains is milky liquid that has an acrid smell. I can only surmise that in my stripping run I must be carrying over some nitrogen compound that is being converted to ammonia after the sodium bicarbonate is added. The other interesting thing is that this is only happening after the charge has been heated....

Just also to complete the picture. I am using birdwatchers recipe for my washes.

Would be interested to hear if anybody else has similar experience ?

[rad14701]

Goose, for best results you should be adding the baking soda to the low wines and allowing it to do its thing for several days to several weeks prior to redistilling... You won't have the same results if you simply toss the baking soda in with the boiler charge...

[Braz]

I've been using 250g of baking soda to my low wines charge, in 20 litre runs. The "low" wines are in fact 85% abv from the "stripping" run which I dilute with tapwater to 40% abv.

You get 85% from your stripping run?!

I'm lucky to get 85% at the START of the strip run, and it drops steadily from there. You are doing some kind of magic there, I think.

And, +1 on what Rad said. I let the baking soda work on the low wines for a week, at least, before putting it back in the still for the spirit run.

[Goose]

You get 85% from your stripping run?!

Well yes. But its not a potstill, its one of those CM commercial units that I have posted on before. It works a treat to strip a wash very quickly (this one operates at 3KW) and it can churn out 90% with sufficient cooling. But its quality is not good enough without carbon filtering. I then dilute to 40% and use a 2" LM column for the spirit run. From this I get 96% product. I then dilute this again using store bought distilled water to get a very decent 40% neutral.

I shall try adding the baking soda week beforehand, thanks.

[lampshade]

Does it make sense to add baking soda (or whatever) to the feints jar to increase alcohol collection when the feints are run?

[winestill]

Is it ok to use potassium carbonate (K2CO3) instead of sodium carbonate?
We dont have sodium carbonate where i live, but we have sodium bicarbonate.
The potassium cost the same as bicarbonate.

[Roundyround]

When adding my sodium carbonate to low wines, I find it doesn't go into solution very well. It sinks to the bottom of the carboy and forms a mass that will eventually dissolve if I swill the carboy a few times a day for a day or two. My last addition was 4 tbsp of sodium carbonate to about 3 gallons of 138 proof mixed fients for a run over the holidays. Do I need to dilute my feints down before the additions instead when I put it in the boiler down to about 30%?

[Dnderhead]

when you use baking soda or other you are neutralizing the acids this in turn makes things like ethyl acetate turn back into ethanol and acidic acid,so how much you use depends on how much acid is in your product.
you could try mixing the base (baking soda etc.)in warm water first,then add to product.

[Roundyround]

Thanks for the suggestion of premixing... just like makin' gravy. Dump flour all at once ya git lumps, make a slurry for nice n smooth. The amount of about a tsp per quart was taken from the posts earlier in this thread. Is there a different way I should be determining how much to add?

[Fritz The Cat]

I'm getting ready to use some sodium carbonate in my next fients run. Boiler charge will be about 6 gallons. Should I add it to the boiler along with the charge or should I add it to the wash and let it sit awhile?

Last, but not least, how much should I add?

Thanks

[rad14701]

I'm getting ready to use some sodium carbonate in my next fients run. Boiler charge will be about 6 gallons. Should I add it to the boiler along with the charge or should I add it to the wash and let it sit awhile?

Last, but not least, how much should I add?

Thanks

You should add it and let it sit for several days to two weeks... Add ~1 teaspoon per liter... Don't get crazy with it...

[Fritz The Cat]

I've read this about Sodium Bi-Caronate but I'm using Sodium Carbonate (Food Grade Soda Ash). Is it the same?

Thanks

[NissedasaPewt]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in here before but as a marine fish keeper I buy Sodium Bicarbonate (NaHCO3) and then spread it over a baking tray and bake in the oven at 400F/200C for an hour. This drives off the excess water and carbon dioxide and converts the Sodium Bicarbonate into the higher Ph (Na2CO3) Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) which I then use in my tank to maintain the pH.

I would think that this may be a useful method for those that cannot find Sodium Carbonate or who have Sodium Bicarbonate (and residual heat from Sunday lunch oven)

[dan1587wrx]

I am confused. I've read through the entire thread and done some other research and my question is can I add my sodium carbonate right before running my low wines in reflux to get a neutral spirit?

Thanks,
Dan

[Prairiepiss]

I am confused. I've read through the entire thread and done some other research and my question is can I add my sodium carbonate right before running my low wines in reflux to get a neutral spirit?

Thanks,
Dan

Your answer is on the page before this one. Second post from the bottom. Actually its answered twice by the same person on that page alone.

And it really has nothing to do with getting a neutral spirit. That comes from the recipe you use and how you distill it. This is more about getting a slightly more useable hearts out of the low wines.

[dan1587wrx]

Thanks for the reply I realize it has nothing to do with the neutral. I will add it and let it sit for several days.

[Edailey002]

I just wanted to throw this in here.
What I have read ( the whole thread ) is that the wash should be 4-5 ph when ready to make the first run.
Add 1 teaspoon per L/Qt of low wines NOT to the wash.
Do not add the carb to the low wines if it is less than a Ph of 7 and more than 40%abv for best result.
Then let the low wines rest for more or less a week before the second run.
At that point carbon filtering is not necessary to have a nice clean smooth neutral.
Also, adding salt to increase the boiling point of the water isn't necassary if carb is used.
I put this in here for two reasons, one to condense what I have read and two I have seen questions asked that were answered two or three posts earlier. Now it is all answered in one post and mods, if I miss represented anything please adjust it for me. Thanks and hope this reduces the same question being asked a dozen times.

[frozenthunderbolt]

I just wanted to throw this in here.
What I have read ( the whole thread ) is that the wash should be 4-5 ph when ready to make the first run.
Add 1 teaspoon per L/Qt of low wines NOT to the wash.
Do not add the carb to the low wines if it is less than a Ph of 7 and more than 40%abv for best result.
Then let the low wines rest for more or less a week before the second run.
At that point carbon filtering is not necessary to have a nice clean smooth neutral.
Also, adding salt to increase the boiling point of the water isn't necassary if carb is used.
I put this in here for two reasons, one to condense what I have read and two I have seen questions asked that were answered two or three posts earlier. Now it is all answered in one post and mods, if I miss represented anything please adjust it for me. Thanks and hope this reduces the same question being asked a dozen times.

Adding salt also tends to corrode the shit out of your still, particularly internal elements.

[pounsfos]

I would'nt add salt full stop.. but your still your choice

Baking soda is great, Have used it in all ym low wines, I get way more, and so much easier to discern between fracrtions,.

[RandyMarshCT]

Do not add the carb to the low wines if it is less than a Ph of 7 and more than 40%abv for best result...

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that you only want to add bicarb if your wash is under 7 (acidic) because bicarb is a base. After adding the bicarb you want a PH of 7 or lower, NOT alkaline. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. My low wines are always acidic and I'm well under a 7 even after adding baking soda. Also, I was adding 1 tbsp per gallon of low wines... it seems I could have been using more.

[WindDawg]

OKay I just read all this and put 1 tsp per quart in my low wines and it turned Light BLUE....Is this to happen? I was a little cloudy before but not blue.

[bostash]

I have done 3 hepping table spoon during a second stirpping run and it works perfect

[rad14701]

OKay I just read all this and put 1 tsp per quart in my low wines and it turned Light BLUE....Is this to happen? I was a little cloudy before but not blue.

Did you add the baking soda right before charging the boiler or did you let it sit for 1 - 2 weeks before running...??? That blue is copper sulfates and the spirits need to be tossed... Some might suggest diluting and rerunning but I'd rather be safe than sorry... Don't use baking soda if you don't absolutely need to... Refining your recipe, fermentation, and distillation methods is a better option than using baking soda as a crutch...

[lampshade]

OKay I just read all this and put 1 tsp per quart in my low wines and it turned Light BLUE....Is this to happen? I was a little cloudy before but not blue.

Did you add the baking soda right before charging the boiler or did you let it sit for 1 - 2 weeks before running...??? That blue is copper sulfates and the spirits need to be tossed... Some might suggest diluting and rerunning but I'd rather be safe than sorry... Don't use baking soda if you don't absolutely need to... Refining your recipe, fermentation, and distillation methods is a better option than using baking soda as a crutch...

If I am reading this correctly, the low wines turned blue immediately after WinDawg added the baking soda. Here is the important fact: WInDawg did not have to distill the low wines -- after adding the baking soda -- to make them turn blue; he only had to add the baking soda. So how did adding the baking soda introduce copper sulfates?

My guess is that the low wines were produced from a wash that was fermented with too much nutrients added (nitrogen) or maybe turbo yeast was used to ferment the wash. Turbo yeast has a lot of nutrients added. Then all it took to make the low wines blue was to add alkaline (baking soda). Dnderhead once wrote "alkaline wash+excess nitrogen= ammonia +copper=blue". In the Wikipedia entry for ammonia, it states that ammonia can react with calcium (from baking soda) to produce a blue liquid.

MORAL #1: Be careful when adding nutrients or turbo yeast when fermenting, or you may produce poison.
MORAL #2: Don't assume that distillation will remove all of the excess nutrients that you added when fermenting or remove any ammonia that may be produced during fermentation. Odin broached the importance of fermentation in http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=42602.