Recovering from an Over-Oaking

[ScottishBoy]

Hi All,
I found out one of my bottles had been missed in the rotation and it had set with five sticks of oak in it for WAAAYYYY too long. I poured a bit and gave it a taste and I could taste the wood, the tannins and a slightly burnt/mossy taste along with everything else. I think it had been sitting for two months. My bodies first reaction was to back away as soon as I tasted it. I tried cutting some of it with a little wheat, but all it did was insult the wheat and then jump on it. I MAY have reduced the off taste by 10%.

Anyone have any suggestions for me before I try anything else?

[theholymackerel]

Water it down and toss it back in the still.

[ScottishBoy]

I was afraid that was going to be my last resort...sigh.
I guess I could mix it in with some feints and see what happens.

Anyone else?

Bueller?....Bueller?

[Bagasso]

Did you try cutting it with different amounts of wheat? Maybe even more wheat than over-oaked?
100ml over-oaked to 900ml wheat might save another trip through the still even if it isn't the best.
Also maybe mix it down with whitedog that will be going on oak. Maybe it'll give something never dreamed of.

[blind drunk]

Maybe pull out the sticks and forget about it. See what happens in a few years down the road. Or maybe just leave a half a stick in it. You never know, it might turn out with given some more time. Cheers, bd.

[kiwistiller]

I'd pull all but 1 one two sticks and forget about it. it's just 1 bottle... what if it ends up awesome?

[rad14701]

Rather than wait years for repeated disappointment I'd dilute and redistill with my feints...

[ScottishBoy]

Think I'm gonna go with Rad's suggestion along with HM's. The oak has literally wiped out the nice caramel and vanilla I had in there. I am amazed at how quick it turned.
But...it was a good lesson in the need for patience....and moderation.

Niot so new to distilling, but still quite new to ageing...

[olddog]

I had the same problem with over oaking, I posted a thread "Can't get oaking right" eary last year, since then I have cut down the size of my oak to chunks about 3"by 2"by 1"thick, any I put two of these into a 4lt jar at around 65%ABV, I just bottled some yesterday that had been on oak since last February, the taste was great with a nice mellow taste, I think we all tend to go overboard to start with until we realise that a small amount over a longer period is better than using big sticks.



OD

[blanikdog]

Me too. A little goes a long way.

[Barney Fife]

2 months? Leave them all in there another year, then try the bottle again. Bet you'll have wonderful spirits by then.

I've dismissed "over-oaking" as a myth. There does come a time when if we have a lot of oak in our spirits that it "turns" on us, but leave it longer, much longer, and it will continue to turn, for the better. Promise.

Only time I truly over-oak'd turned out to be from having a bit of sapwood in there, and _THAT_ one tasted of raw wood, and was essentially ruined. But with good oak, and highly charred? No way. Just keeps getting better, after you get over that hump.

[ammo man]

Glad to hear that Barney. I never get ahead enough for mine to last much more than a month.

I am in the process of developing a recipe which is a 3 generation sour mash type with me "aging" the hearts before dumping them in the pot after the first run and distilling all again. On the last generation the time I age is only about a week, but I dump in a bunch of JD BBQ chips, and I was wondering about over oaking. You have helped answer my question along with The HM and rad on this thread where they commented that redistilling would solve any over oaking problem.

Bert

[ScottishBoy]

My other ones have been fine, but this bottle got lost in the rotation. Naturally, it got lost right after I oaked it along with two others. I was thinking about cutting it with some white dog, but the tannins are just too damn strong.

[Barney Fife]

I was thinking about cutting it with some white dog, but the tannins are just too damn strong.

Right. You left it there long enough for the spirits to 'get to' the nasty part of oak, but not long enough for the further interaction between the oak and spirits that smooths it all out. In other words, oaking for too short of a time frame causes an imbalance, since not all compounds from the wood are reached at the same time, nor converted at the same time.

Aging is just that; aged. It takes time. Using oak for a week or two, or even a month or two, is flavoring-only. You only get some of the good from the wood, and not much at that. Even left white and in glass, I find my rum keeps changing with the years. I say this because there's no way I was making rum -that- good 2-3 years ago, yet when I open up one of those that I left in the white, wow! Mmmmm! I have some 2 year old UJSM that's been on a lot of oak, heavily, heavily charred oak, from day one and is still on oak. I sneak a tumbler or two every now and again. Nice! And it's a deep gold/brown/black in color. By all definitions around here, it should be completely ruined by over-oaking, but no way!

We all rush when we first start out, but gear up and get ahead of yourself and get a gallon or three ahead of your consumption, and set these aside and forget about them. Then back off the production and continue to consume what you make as you make it, with a little push every now and again to make extra for aging. Open up the aged ones no sooner than a couple years later, and only on special occasions. Patience!

[Bagasso]

Barney may be on to some thing. This is from http://www.whiskeywise.com/whiskey-barrels.html

"Oak Tannins* - Which play an essential role in maturation by enabling oxidation and the creation of delicate fragrance in spirits. Tannins combine with oxygen and other compounds in the spirit to form acetals over time."

So it would seem that a little more patience may be rewarded. Of course only you know just how mouth puckering the stuff may be but if the above is true maybe some spreading of the tannins into other hooch may be beneficial down the road.

[blind drunk]

It's the same with wine. I had some really "over oaked" Aus Shiraz that I made. I started drinking it after 4 years and the astringency gave way to some nice smooth tannins that gives the wine some good back bone. We expect to age wine but for some reason we want our likker ready in 2 months (my self included ) Cheers, bd.

[MuleKicker]

Has anyone ever tried carbon filtering to recover from over oaking? I have some stuff that aint over oaked, but has a burnt taste to it. Wondering if that could mellow it out.

[MuleKicker]

Has anyone ever tried carbon filtering to recover from over oaking? I have some stuff that aint over oaked, but has a burnt taste to it. Wondering if that could mellow it out.

Just a follow up. I took a couple of the really dark harsh bottles that i had and ran them through a carbon filter. it didnt effect the color at all, but really seemed to smooth them out. it didnt remove much flavor, but i am impressed at what it did remove. Im gonna put them back on a lot less oak / air and finish it off. see what happens.

[Pamulli]

2 months? Leave them all in there another year, then try the bottle again. Bet you'll have wonderful spirits by then.

I've dismissed "over-oaking" as a myth. There does come a time when if we have a lot of oak in our spirits that it "turns" on us, but leave it longer, much longer, and it will continue to turn, for the better. Promise.

Only time I truly over-oak'd turned out to be from having a bit of sapwood in there, and _THAT_ one tasted of raw wood, and was essentially ruined. But with good oak, and highly charred? No way. Just keeps getting better, after you get over that hump.

As I posted in a previous topic, I got to attend a Maker's Mark tasting a few weeks ago and one of the things they let us sample was what they termed "over aged" and I would have to agree with them. It was very harsh tasting. I certainly don't have much experience in this, but I don't see how it could have ever recovered. It had lost all of the nice soft flavors the regular stuff had. It is probably a different story with used barrels, which is what Scotch tends to be aged in, but for the new oak I definitely think there is a point where it is too much. Of course some people may like that flavor, but I didn't.

[Kentucky shinner]

2 months? Leave them all in there another year, then try the bottle again. Bet you'll have wonderful spirits by then.

I've dismissed "over-oaking" as a myth. There does come a time when if we have a lot of oak in our spirits that it "turns" on us, but leave it longer, much longer, and it will continue to turn, for the better. Promise.

Only time I truly over-oak'd turned out to be from having a bit of sapwood in there, and _THAT_ one tasted of raw wood, and was essentially ruined. But with good oak, and highly charred? No way. Just keeps getting better, after you get over that hump.

I am trying what you have said here Barney. I have some whiskey in the 5 liter barrels right now that is 2 months old. It really taste woody right now but Im gonna leave it for at least a year and see what happens. I have noticed that after 30 days it had one hell of a bite to it, but now that is not nearly as bad as it was. I am just hopping that some of the oak taste will smooth out also... Time will tell.
KS