Nitrile/EPDM seals?

[Manback]

So, I've been hunting around Google. As usual, I found too much information, alot of which was inconsistent. Probably most notable was a page on the parent site. As far as I can discern, both nitrile and EPDM seem like pretty damn good bets..

However, I've seen it said before that not all the information on the parent site is generally accepted knowledge. Anyone got any success/horror stories with these substances?

[loneswinger]

Here in the lab we use nitrile gloves. No problems with ethanol, methanol, isopropanol, or water. But acetone is a killer, one drop will eat right through them. That is basically all the solvents we use here. Never used EDPM so I don't have any experience. Wait a minute....what site are we on? Oh right......

If it ain't glass, SS, or copper it's bad. Shame on you for asking!!!

-Loneswinger

[JethroBodine]

I don't know about shame in asking, but opinions do vary and quite often end up in a heated argument about plastics. If you are looking for a seal for a sani clamp, as they offer nitrile and epdm as options, the general consensus on this site is to move one more column over and order the ptfe or teflon. As there is acetone in foreshotes, per several analysis of washes on this site, nitrile is out, per loneswinger. Another option would be thin copper crush washers, hand made or bought if you can find them. Flour and water mixed into a paste is a good sealer that cooks into a hard seal durring runs. As you weren't specific about your application this is the best I can do for now. Hope this helps.

[kiwistiller]

I think it would be fine in a pure ethanol / water application, but acetone and some other bits and pieces in the heads components of the mixtures we use would cause problems.

If it ain't glass, SS, or copper it's bad. Shame on you for asking!!!

hmm, yes, because comments like that are absolutely the way to make progress on the issue

[loneswinger]

Geeze guys, nobody got that was a joke. Read the sentence before it, and the words leading up to it.

I better edit that comment with some smiley faces to make it more clear.

-Loneswinger

[kiwistiller]

I got the joke. The issue I refer to is the same one that jethro speaks of:

opinions do vary and quite often end up in a heated argument about plastics

and it's comments like the that can start things off.

[MuleKicker]

I know people get cranky for tellin others to read and search. But do a search on these substances. There are a few topics on them.

[loneswinger]

I found just the article you needed manback for EDPM

Tenna Brandt Nielsen, and Charles M. Hansen, 'Polymer Testing' Vol. 24 pg 1054. I will not reproduce without permission but I can summarize:

Soluble in: Benzene, Carbontetrachloride, Chlorobenzene, Chloroform, Cyclohexane, o-Dichlorobenzene, Diethylether, Ethylenedichloride, Hexane, Methylenedichloride, Tetrahydrofurane, Toluene, Trichloroethylene.

Ethanol makes the gasket swell by less than 1% in a 30 day soak, which is nothing. From this article I would say its probably good enough. It certainly should keep its seal.

-Loneswinger (sorry if I stirred up trouble earlier)

[olddog]

I don't know why you guys dont just order some virgin Teflon sheet and cut your own seals, there is plenty listed on US Ebay.


OD

[MuleKicker]

If you are using triclamp ferrules, they make teflon gaskets that fit the ferrules perfectly, with the half round bead and all.

[Manback]

To loneswinger, kiwi, olddog and anyone else who actually really made an effort to formulate a helpful reply - cheers guys! Looks like I'll be going with the EPDM seals.

olddog - purely a matter of convenience really, and if you saw the seals I had to make they're not quite as simple as like a tri-clamp seal, they're step-seals for RJT fittings, so if EPDM will cut it, then it would make my life alot easier

I've done plenty of reading and searching. I know how to use the HD Google Search and I DID before I asked. CONFLICTING INFORMATION was why I asked, as anyone who bothered to read my original post would know.

I haven't been here that long but MAN some of you guys have cocky attitudes. Do you want to convince people this site is full of knobs? I don't go around asking stupid questions all the time. Sure, I asked one or two when I first got here. Since then I've done ALOT of reading, and have tried to pass on to others what I could without being a condescending prick about it.

kiwi mate - what am I doing with this copper sheet bud? You still need it?

[MuleKicker]

Wasnt tryin to be a dick. How bout you quit with the F=in heimers? Totally uncalled for. If you did a search and found a lot of conflicting info, what did you think you would get from another topic? Sounds like you had your mind made up on what you were gonna use before making the topic.

[rubber duck]

Looks like you know what your doing Manback, go kill yourself.

[Manback]

Wasnt tryin to be a dick. How bout you quit with the F=in heimers? Totally uncalled for. If you did a search and found a lot of conflicting info, what did you think you would get from another topic? Sounds like you had your mind made up on what you were gonna use before making the topic.

Oh yeah, it sounds like that does it? That would be why I asked about two completely different types of rubber? Because I was already settled on one?

Give me a break. If you're not trying to be a dick then maybe it comes naturally. You knew you were being annoying at the time, because you said so yourself.

What did I think I was going to get out of another topic? Well, none of the others were that recent, so I thought maybe newer members could shed more light on the topic, or newer information may have come to light to some. Or maybe I just wanted to know if anyone had any success/horror stories.. that being exactly what I asked.

If you don't have something useful to add, don't add it. I think if there's one thing every single member of this forum has seen, it's a million people saying "read more info"

I've been on alot of forums for alot of different things in my life. This has got to be one of the least helpful I've come across. Many members are helpful, friendly and generous with their time. There are just enough people who think they are part of some 'elite internet distilling crew' to piss off heaps of people.

If you think I'm the only one who feels this way.. well. You know I'm not.

I'm not gonna post again on this topic, I don't want drama. But it had to be said. Laters guys!

Just got a wee update about a new post, thanks for that rubber duck. You're a real cock mate, exactly the kind of fucking bundy who wouldn't have the nuts to say that in person.

You guys can shove ya fuckin' forum, I'm done with this retarded shit. Go kill yourself? That's the kind of shit you guys post around? No wonder 3/4 of the people who sign up don't stick around for long. Fucking knob.

[Tater]

Lets play nice.

[rad14701]

Everybody, play nice... There's no reason for getting hostile...

Manback, go do your research and come back with your personal results...

The fact of the matter is that some materials act totally different when exposed to a gaseous mixture with the presence of different amounts of oxygen...

[rubber duck]

Your right I'm not the kinda guy that would say that to your face. Fine I'm a puss you win so there.

I was just trying to get a point across, in this hobby what you don't know will hurt you. If you hurt yourself it's on you, what you post can affect other new members in a negative way.

Put up or shut up, that's the attitude on synthetics on this forum. If you don't like it there are other forums to post.

RD

[Kentucky shinner]

RULES WE LIVE BY

8. These forums take a very strong negative view on the usage of plastics in distilling. It simply is not safe to use in any area of hobby distilling (however HPDE buckets are acceptable for fermentation.) There simply are too many types of plastics and lack of reliable information about plastics, for us to reliably advocate their use anywhere in the distillation apparatus. Also, from past posting history, this topic seems to quickly boil down into an almost religious flame war. Thus we simply will not put up with it, and posts about any form of plastic use will be edited, deleted or locked. There is a forum for proven info for or against any material (material/safety.)

some people want to learn and some just want to start trouble..HMMM I wonder

[goose eye]

045 or 060 white or black what kinda edpm you talkin. while back the ole boys use to lay rubber.
at one time you use ta wipe down a splice with white gas to clean before they glue it together.
now it will void warrenty. dont mater it firestone carlyle or who.
lay a peace on the ground an pour 90 percent likker on it an see what happens.
if you fine with it. charge on

so im tole

[rednose]

Both mentioned material are recommended for ethanol fuel, sealings for tanks, injection, carburators etc.

Anyhow I wouldn't use it in my stills where I can work easily with the most recommended material => Teflon - PTFE , I want that my clients get the best.

Joe

So I'm tole (sorry goose )

[ScottishBoy]

While I am a firm believer in the "be wary of synthetics" rule, I think it may be to our benefit to examine this in greater detail. Maybe even get a few examples and some testimony? As certain resources become more scarce, out options will be more scarce as well. At some point in the future, we may not have easy access to anything but synthetics, so why not start getting to know them a little bit better? Warn people away from the dangerous ones and at least stear them to the better ones?
A simple list even?
Nylon Garden hose: Poor resistance to alcohol in any form. Leaves chemical traces and very bad flavors. Stay away.
Polypropelyne Hose: Use only for waste and cooling water. Dissolves in Alcohol. Leaves chemical in distillate. Bad taste. Avoid
EDPM: Chemically resistant.Used in Dairy industy. Alcohol resistance not researched. Potentially viable. No research on off tastes or chemical traces. Research before using.
Stainless Steel: Stable, inert metal resistant to corrosion. Resistant to high proof alcohol and acids. Does not leave any residue. Clean well before using. Recommended.
Copper Pipe: Stable, Mostly inert metal. Safe for high temp alcohol and also reduces suplhides. Recommended.

Just trying to get a little peace going here. Seems like this is a touchy subject and I think if we researched it a bit more we could be more proactive and less reactive.

[blanikdog]

Every time we get one of these threads regarding "the Parent Site" I become suspicious of the thread and the posters motive.

If I read something that I think is inconsistant I firstly check the source and when it was - in this case - written. I then check more recent sources.
I then make a decision on the evidence I have ascertained by my research. I don't go back and be critical of the first source because there are a few areas that have been reviewed over time. I go for the most current and what I consider to be the best for my purpose. Doesn't this make sense???
I take everything I read on the internet with a very small grain of salt, never for the truth, but as a starting point only.

If people come in here and expect everything to be there like a recipe for cup cakes they will surely be disappointed, because it isn't that simple. We try to advise and then get arguments about what is on "The Parent Site" and it doesn't matter how may times the admin say we are unable to re-write it owing to copyright it just doesn't seem to sink in. Why not?? It's a fairly simple concept.

So, if a poster comes in here and tells this community that plastic, rubber or whatever else is safe and they choose to ignore what it suggests, I now figure let 'em go for it. It won't kill me or even make me crook.

What does worry me is that a genuine new distiller may take the advice that the loser in question has posted and they may be harmed. I guess that's exactly what these mischievous posters are seeking. There are some very strange folk in this world.

[Manback]

Well guys

blanikdog has cracked the case. I thought I could hide it but you guys are just too damn good.


I was trying to kill new distillers. You heard it here first.

In other breaking news, the Government is spiking the water system with crystal meth, and aliens are running your local post shop.



If anyone who isn't a freak actually read my original post, I simply asked about the fact that there is conflicting information. I didn't try to claim that the parent site was definitely right, and I didn't try to question the fact that nobody had updated it. Merely asked if it was accurate.


blanikdog, turns out you're a genius.

[blanikdog]

Thank you manback. Your award is in the mail. Wear it with pride.

[cob]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p6850974 c.o.b.

[Manback]

You guys are knobs. You act like I refuse to listen to anyone who posted here.

READ THE FUCKING THREAD YOU BUNDIES.



What I said I had a problem was with the 'go read more' attitude. I didn't say there wasn't a problem with the seals I mentioned, although loneswinger provided information which I'm satisfied with as it happens. If nobody had posted anything good about EPDM, I would have said: "sweet, I won't use it." I would have then said "You're a tosser for just telling me to go read more MuleKicker"


Are you guys so stupid you can't follow this chain of events? Or are you doing it deliberately? I suspect you're just thick but sometimes it seems like you're just being contrary.

[Austin Nichols]

Manback,

Take it easy mate.

I know where your coming from and can understand your frustration, it looks to me as though you took the bait.

Cheers.

[blanikdog]

You won't be getting a bar for your award from me, manback so why try?? )

[Manback]

You know what blanikdog-

Keep it. You guys are right about everything you posted.

Being a big fish on HD is probably the only thing you have going for you in life, so I guess you should hold onto that.

Admins can ban me if they want, I don't give a fuck, this thread demonstrates perfectly all the things wrong with homedistiller.


And, just so you know - I've got several messages from members (no, I won't say who, you can think I'm lying if you like) who agree 100% with me - and ALOT of people think you're a total cocksucker here blanikdog. You are actively turning people away from good, useful information about hobby distilling. Is that what you hope to achieve?

Go fall down a well bud. Later.

[goose eye]

son i aint sure what your problem is. you post folks comment.

you no some use to drop a batery with caps off in there corn mash.
some use to use lead solder to put there outfits together an some say
if it in your ketle it aint gonna hurt you cause it to heavy to vaperize.
so forth an so on.

you bein a likker maker got the responciblety to keep them that gona drink your likker safe
as posible cause it mostly shows itself in birth defects.

so im tole