Fermenting in bigger amounts..

[Moonshine34]

All i've ever used it 2 5gal buckets to make a 10gal wash..
Im wanting to go bigger and make more amounts with each run.
I got a 30 gallon barrel only thing is it has no top... Is it possible to ferment in this barrel by placing a cloth over top of it and letting it ferment or would it have to be 100% sealed just like in the buckets using a airlock ?

[Dnderhead]

" Is it possible to ferment in this barrel by placing a cloth over top of it and letting it ferment or would it have to be 100% sealed"

you can ,most ferments are vigorous and fast enough that they dont git infected.
the thing is getting ferments started fast and removing them after done.
then dont play in them.

[Samohon]

When I mash an All-Grain I keep mashing until I have 100L of wort in a 130L food grade barrel (with no lid)...
I use cling-film, plastic-wrap to cover the barrel while fermenting then after a few hours I put a couple of needle holes into the plastic...
I do aim for this quantity because my SG from an AG wort is quite low, 1.040 - 1.050 a potential of 6% - 7%abv, so I need quantity/quality to get a good yield for ageing...

As dunder says, put a good yeast starter in there with the mash cover it with plastic or cheesecloth an you'll be good to go...

[rubber duck]

I've used an old wine barrel and just covered it with a piece of plywood, it's pretty hard to get more unsanitary then that. How do you think folks brewed 200 years ago before they had plastic buckets?

Like Dunder said as long as you have a healthy ferment and don't let it sit to long after it's done you will be ok.

[Moonshine34]

Thanks for the replies.. Just going by forum guidelines.. SAFETY !!

Appreciate it !

[EscarpmentDew]

I've used an old wine barrel and just covered it with a piece of plywood, it's pretty hard to get more unsanitary then that. How do you think folks brewed 200 years ago before they had plastic buckets?

That comment will put me at ease the next time I am worried about something as trivial as a crack in my fermenter lid. I guess everyone is just showing off with their fancy new age plastic and air tight seals. How skunky did that plywood get btw?

[rubber duck]

The glue in the plywood could be a problem for some applications but as a cover it's never in contact with the mash. It never gets funky.

As long as it has a loose cover and it's a health ferment you will have a good co2 blanket to protect the mash. Hell I'll even take a old 2x4 and stir the cap back sometimes, doesn't hut a thing.

As distillers strict sanitation isn't as important to us. For beer brewers or wine guys ya it's a big deal. For us if it relatively clean we're good to go. People where doing open ferments long before air locks, many breweries and distilleries still do.

The only time I use an air lock is if doing a mash where I introduce specific bacteria or a new strain of yeast, or to remove some variables for the sake of experimentation.

[Bagasso]

I do 100l ferments in a garbage bin with a normal lid. First couple of ferments I used plastic film but the last five I have just used the lid. I leave my hydrometer in the wash and even open and check it at leat once a day and have never gotten an infection.

[goose eye]

with plywood barels you line em with visqueen

so im tole

[Tater]

The glue in the plywood could be a problem for some applications but as a cover it's never in contact with the mash. It never gets funky.

As long as it has a loose cover and it's a health ferment you will have a good co2 blanket to protect the mash. Hell I'll even take a old 2x4 and stir the cap back sometimes, doesn't hut a thing.

As distillers strict sanitation isn't as important to us. For beer brewers or wine guys ya it's a big deal. For us if it relatively clean we're good to go. People where doing open ferments long before air locks, many breweries and distilleries still do.

The only time I use an air lock is if doing a mash where I introduce specific bacteria or a new strain of yeast, or to remove some variables for the sake of experimentation.

that 2x4 would been the sacred paddle or stick the vikings used to make mead . After washing . I pour boiling water in or over everything I use before using it and that's been good enough for distilling long as Ive been doing it.

[goose eye]

can also be used to render lard if you whitle if narow like an make it a mite over 3ft or so.
makes it so you aint gota stoop

so im tole

[rainman08]

Started out using 5 Gal. buckets, then scaled-up to a 30 gal. trash can.been running 15 gal. thin-mash. also started running 5 gal. molasses/rum wash`s. on 4th batch in just 6 day`s.

[Prairiepiss]

I don't want to go far off on this. But I cant help but think about this. I made wine in a prior life. And in wine making all they talk about is sanitation and sealed ferments. So my question is why are distillers not. I've read all kinds of things from cause we cook it. To it don't make a difference. But if you want to make a great product don't you want to start out with the best ingredients you can? Say I want a good steak for dinner. If I buy a cheap tough steak it's not going to magically turn into a Fillet Mignon or a Porterhouse when I cook it. I know there has to be a reason out there? I just have not seen it or understood it I guess..

[rad14701]

I don't want to go far off on this. But I cant help but think about this. I made wine in a prior life. And in wine making all they talk about is sanitation and sealed ferments. So my question is why are distillers not. I've read all kinds of things from cause we cook it. To it don't make a difference. But if you want to make a great product don't you want to start out with the best ingredients you can? Say I want a good steak for dinner. If I buy a cheap tough steak it's not going to magically turn into a Fillet Mignon or a Porterhouse when I cook it. I know there has to be a reason out there? I just have not seen it or understood it I guess..

With washes and mashes used for distillation we generally ferment faster than when making wine... And because we don't leave a wash sitting around aging, like a fine wine, we don't need to worry about infections... Many of us can go from raw ingredients to distilled spirits in about a weeks time... Not much chance of infection with a time table like that...

[Prairiepiss]

With washes and mashes used for distillation we generally ferment faster than when making wine... And because we don't leave a wash sitting around aging, like a fine wine, we don't need to worry about infections... Many of us can go from raw ingredients to distilled spirits in about a weeks time... Not much chance of infection with a time table like that...

So if your ferment goes longer than a week would you want to worry about it?
I had one of my first batches of wine go south on me. I noticed it in the second week. Still don't know how that one happened?? But it went quick. After that one freaked me out a little I was real matriculate about how I handled things from then on. Maybe I'm still stuck on that?

[Bagasso]

PP, I think the secret is the yeast bomb. On my last ferment I used 500grams of fresh yeast. The large amount of yeast means nothing else stands a chance.

I had a 2 pound brick and the rest was boiled for nutrients nothing else was boiled. I filled my fermentor with water straight from the tap. While it filled I poured 37 lbs of sugar in and then the boiled yeast. Add a 1/4 cup triple 20 and live yeast and stir. Place the loose fitting lid on. Like I said above after a couple days I open it daily to see the hydrometer. Usually takes about 12 to 14 days to finish up.

[Dnderhead]

in general what gits started first rules the ferment.so if you use a good healthy yeast
and git it started right away,either by using a starter or lots of yeast.then that is going
to dominate.then after it is going the co2 will keep most everything out.

[EscarpmentDew]

I recently did two batches of KentuckyShiners Sweetfeed recipe and experimented between baker's yeast and a bulk store brewer's yeast, . The brewer's yeast didn't take, as it turns out the store owner admitted it was very old after the fact when we were speaking. After 3 or 4 days without activity I started to get something, but it petered out and I got an infection. I may have witnessed a battle between wild yeast and the infection first hand, or the yeast was not totally inactive, but the mash spoiled and it was like puke. Imagine bottling that for several weeks or longer and then cracking that baby open.

[Prairiepiss]

I see what your saying about what gets started first. And I have noticed that the amounts of yeast being used is a lot more than I remember using for wine back when I was making it.

Thanks for the replies guys.

[The Baker]

I am building a copper espresso machine so I can make my own Kopi Luwak. It is coffee made from coffee beans which have been eaten by the Asian Palm Civet and they go around and collect the beans after it poops them out. Would you like a try?


Perhaps it would be cheaper to run a few beans through the moggy and give that a try?

[Prairiepiss]

Perhaps it would be cheaper to run a few beans through the moggy and give that a try?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Got to account for all this copper somehow! LOL

[likkerluvver]

..... Is it possible to ferment in this barrel by placing a cloth over top of it and letting it ferment or would it have to be 100% sealed just like in the buckets using a airlock ?

Sure, that will work.

Last summer, fruit/vinegar flies were a problem in this area - not just for those of us with active fermentations on-the-go - dunno why!

I always found a couple in the airlock (sucked in between "blips") on small 30L (8usg) fermenters. For my large fermenters (20, 30, 55 usg) I used Polyethylene plastic sheet (used here as vapour barrier in exterior walls) as a cover, held on with bungee cords or daisy-chained elastic bands. No pests got in when I folded the sheet carefully at the edge (preventing bunched-up ruches where they could enter). Works far better than lids if they are loose-fitting .

This also allows me to route my aquarium heaters when I ferment in my cool/cold basement during the winter. (60 weeks or more per year in the frozen North!?! )

[Ayay]

Beer and wine is drunk without any cuts; all is drunk including the foreshots. They have to brew very carefully.

Stillers get natural hi-octane brews done in a few weeks rather than the months it takes for a low-octane beer or wine. A stillin fermentor is always blowing out CO2 and if it ever sucks anything the brew is ready to run. Turbo yeasts go beyond hi-octane into 'nitro' territory...complete with accessories and a heavy price.

Stillin refines the brew, more refining happens when the stiller makes the cuts, then some ageing, and sooner or later all nasties are removed or converted.

[clarkee142]

In Bulgaria where I am now living, most Bulgarians and in particular the villagers, simply gather the fruit and put it in a large drum, cover with water and leave it for months on end. The mash gets covered in flies and often develops a white mould on top, which they tell me is good for the fermentation and taste. I am amazed they dont turn the whole lot to vinagar but they never complain of failures. Zero aseptic technique.

[EscarpmentDew]

I'm really jealous of these low tech and carefree methods. I started with brew shop supplies and clear guidance from online and books. If I saw mold or flies around my wort I probably would have just spilled it and sulked.