Am I getting enough? Am I doing it all right?

[bushranger7]

G'Day HD Org,

I am new to the site and have been brewing for about 2 years now.
I have a 30lt plastic furmenter and 30lt still sprits super reflux still.
Good, VIABLE knowledge is hard to come by up here and I have always had conflicting instructions on what I should be doing! Very annoying because I want to get it right!
I live in far north qld where the ambient air temp in the garage sits around the 28C mark all day and down to 20C at night... so there shouldn't be any dramas with a stable fermentation process I guess.

I sterilise all my gear b4 use and use 7kg of dex and alcotec 48hr yeast, mix the dex with water (about 28C, should it be 40C??) with a cordless drill and paddle (helps aerate the wash!! ), add alcotec yeast and stir in too.
I then have been stirring it every 4-6 days (I have had conflicting reports on whether to stir it or not!!) for 21 days and then transferring the clear wash in to the still.
Once in the still is turned on I start the water running at 400ml/min and hold the first 100ml of the wash for cleaning car parts and stuff (works wonders, no wonder you can't drink it!! ).
After that I run the water at about 500-600ml/ min until the temp reading at the top of the column reaches 94C and then I turn it off and start the cooling of the collection (in a plastic 15lt brewcraft tub... is this ok??)
Once it is @ 20C I test and water down to 40% and run it through the Ezy carbon cylinder filter to the next 15lt plastic brewcraft container where I separate in to what I want to mix as rum, JD, and anything else the missus wants that week!

My question is, after all that...
1. Am I using the right amount of dex + yeast?
2. Am I using the correct fermentation process?
3. Am I using the right water flow rates?
4. Am I not supposed to use plastic for the collection? Even if it is only for say... 5 hours?
5. How much of the collection should I be getting? I get about 5-6lt at the moment....

I thank you all for your time and hopefully constructive responses...

Bushranger7

[rad14701]

Welcome to the HD forums, bushranger7...

Most all of your questions can be answered during the process of doing adequate research which is considered compulsory around here... Not only will the research answer your current questions but will also answer questions you don't even know you have yet... You will find that there are several areas where you will be able to improve the overall processes you are using now... Those improvements can't be described here in just a sentence or three which is why doing the reading is so important... We want you to know the WHY behind the WHAT because that information will go a lot further than an unquantified answer...

Good luck...

[bushranger7]

So in other words, your expert/ mentoring advice is........

go and read another 40,000 post, of most will not be applicable, and once your done some weeks later see if you still have any silly question?!

I have read, read until my eyes hurt... But, thats fine HD forum. Thank you all for your great overwhelming responce.
I'll go ask somewhere else where i can get a straight answer. Somewhere were they ont f@#k people around with Yoda dribble.

[Kal]

I'm a complete novice (first post here) but I will attempt to answer the questions.

1. Am I using the right amount of dex + yeast?
You should be using a hydrometer to know the SG of what you are fermenting. Since the yeast sounds like a turbo it should say how much to use.

2. Am I using the correct fermentation process?
You are using a 48 hour turbo yeast that should be finished in 48-72 hours, so if it is taking you 21 days then something is wrong. Alcohol is only produced when the mash is deprived of oxygen, so why do you keep aerating it?

3. Am I using the right water flow rates?
If I read you correctly, you operate the still with water flow and remove foreshots, but then switch off the water and collect the rest using the still like a simple pot still?

4. Am I not supposed to use plastic for the collection? Even if it is only for say... 5 hours?
Personally, I wouldn't use plastic.

5. How much of the collection should I be getting? I get about 5-6lt at the moment....
It depends on how much alcohol is in the mix you are distilling. If you took SG measurements you would know how much you can extract.

Overall, it sounds like you don't take any measurements of your mash, it ferments way too long, and you could possibly be running your still in the wrong way (unless I read it wrong). My advice? Read ALL of the material on the parent site of these forums http://homedistiller.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It will take you a couple of hours, but I really think you need to understand the basics first.

[Oxbo Rene]

41,374 posts, to be exact ...........

[Ayay]

a gift must be more tailored to be accepted by the givee. reading is so carbon neutral it seems like we owe ya.

[maheel]

hey BR7

you got a lovley 1st reply there lol

i reckon a big help to your product would be
1. give up the turbos and do some birdwatches tomato paste washes, those turbos create more work than good products
2. start making cuts and eg fores, heads hearts tails. i collect in stubbies in 250ml "lots" nearly the enitre run
3. consider stripping the wash on a "fast" run then re-run it on a slow run for better product re-cutting it


do some more reading, do some more runs and keep asking Q's lots to learn

[Dnderhead]

"have been brewing for about 2 years now."
as a brewer you should be able to answer many of your own questions.
you ferment the same as beer/wine but "can" be different ingredients.
or the same.depending what your making.
whisky-grain,similar to beer,,,rum,molasses/sugar products,,,brandy grapes/fruit..
2) your not going to have rum flavor by using DEXTROS this will be flavorless.
(or close)
3) how much water flow depends on your still the water temp.. if it can knock
down the vapor your doing fine.
4)plastic is not recommended for contact with "hi proof" alcohol.
5)how much you collect depends how much is in the wash and how much wash.
the percentage you collect at,,how you do cuts,
how much alcohol is in wash is figured the same as beer/wine---SG-FG X136=% of alcohol X amount of wash=total alcohol,,this is total alcohol with out cuts.
you shuld be "keeping" about 1/2-1/3 of this,
long ferment time can be caused by 1)large amount of sugar,to cool of ferment temps..lack of nutrients.

[rad14701]

So in other words, your expert/ mentoring advice is........

go and read another 40,000 post, of most will not be applicable, and once your done some weeks later see if you still have any silly question?!

Yes... Nobody gets spoon fed here...

Do you want to be spoon fed the answers or do you want to know the WHY behind the answers...???

Should we spoon feed every new member who joins and has the exact same basic questions...???

Should we have to clutter up these forums telling people to do research as well as posting links to where they should go to find the answers...???

Think about it... Rather than whining because you have read too much consider the fact that people keep asking the same questions over and over again as being part of the reason you are having to read so much... If you do your research the smart way, by reading up on the theory, then you can just use the search features to find the rest of your answers... If you came here thinking this is an easy hobby you were sadly mistaken... We aren't a bunch of old coots stillin up in the holler to make a buck, we're here to help the hobby of home distillation progress into a respectable pass-time...

Do you like my extended answer better than my first...??? It surely gives you more WHY...

Oh, and in case you were wondering... Yes, I've read every one of those 40-some thousand posts, and many of them more than once... Every post... Every day... Not bragging, just stating the facts as to who is putting more effort into this hobby...

[johnboy1234]

I would just like to put my 2 cents worth in here, as I can see BOTH sides of this arguement, and tend to agree with both of you. I too am one of those novices that come on in here and ask stupid questions. Now it is not because I dont try finding the answers first in the forum, because I DO Like to read and learn things on a subject that interests me, but blowed if I want to read 40,000 posts to find out a simple question like 'How long till my fermentor stops bubbling?' YES a dumb question to you experts, because I didnt say what I am using and how much etc etc.

I can fully understand you experts getting peeved off with dumb questions like that, but remember back all those years ago, you probably asked dumb questions too, everyone does till they learn. I think the best way to cutdown on getting asked dumb questions is to have an area for dumb questions and instead of replying by saying read 40,000 posts ya lazy bugger, (which is no help to anyone)reply with you can find this answer and a lot of other useful info on this page of the forum, and have a link to the part of the forum that has the info required. As the forum has SO MUCH info it can be quite confusing to newbie.

I have been a member of all sorts of forums and most I find are very helpful and then when I learn about something that a newbie doesnt know I pass on my knowledge. No offence guys, but a couple of your experts really lack diplomacy and can be quite offensive with their replies. I know I have experienced that here, and have just joined an Australian distillers forum where I have found the experts to be very helpful and friendly. Though in saying that, I have also had some great help from your more diplomatic experts.

Anyway I just thought I would mention this to you guys, as I'm sure you do not want to be thought of as a pack of distilling snobs that rubbish newbies, which I am sorry to admit, but I have found that here.

[6fiddyv]

Let another noob add my 2 cents.

I work for a telephone company, one of the traits I have learned at work is to read and understand the whole process of what your about to do before you start the first step, you need to understand where the process is taking you and to be ready for any outcomes before they happen. With that said...

From the over eagerness of learning a new hobby, we as noob's want to or feel the need to just start to apply what we just learned. That first process is ferment. While stillin' is a lot of different skillsets all wrapped up, just by human nature, learn a new skill we want to put it to use. For me, it was Hey, I just learned what a ferment is, lets do it...right...So we get ingredients, put them all together and get a fermentation going, thinking in the back of our heads, I just learned what a ferment is so the rest should come just as quickly......wrong! I need to read some more before I start. But the knowledgeable crew here knows this is just a case of wash suicide. What is not known is the following processes take so much more time to learn then more time to fully understand.

What happens to the ferment if x happens, when do I know its done, why is it not bubbling the whole time...??? What is a charge, and why am I not just dumping the finished wash into the still and in an hour get some great product? While yes it is great to learn while doing, the WHOLE process needs to be understood before starting the first step.

So I agree that the mentors answer is justified, I also understand the noob side. I just spent money and time on a wash, please help me so I dont ruin it and waste money...!!! So they come here asking the same question...I just jumped out of a plane, which cord do I pull???

6

WWPS=UhOhTheGroundIsApproachingFAST

[Bull Rider]

Since May 1 of this year 367 new members signed onto this forum. This hobby is experiencing a huge surge in popularity. The hobby in general requires attention to detail and more than a little learning. If the new members aren't prepared to read, and learn and read and learn there will not be enough senior members to answer the blizzard of questions.

I do understand that sometimes the responses are short and abrupt, but after you've been here awhile you will see the same question(s) asked time, after time, after time.

I think if a new member shows that he/she has made a reasonable attempt to use the search feature and is stuck, then he/she will get a reasonable response (but sometimes maybe not so reasonable).

If new members would keep their posts focused on one or two questions they would get more answers and better answers. The new members that ask twelve questions in a post that goes on forever isn't going to get much play.

I, like everyone here, have a limited amount of time, and I select out the questions that I have some experience with, and I select out those new members that are trying to help themselves too.

There's no way to keep this hobby safe without a lot of learning and diligence. If you don't have the discipline to learn the right and proper process to make spirits, perhaps this isn't your thing.


noBull.

[johnboy1234]

I understand perfectly where you are coming from, and I myself find it annoying if people don't help themselves. All I am saying is certain members on here are downright rude to newbies, which in the long run is going to defeat your purpose of having a forum that teaches safety, newbies will be too scared to ask questions, because they get abused for not reading up.

In fact this site is beginning to get a bit of a bad reputation towards newbies at other distilling forums. Do a search on google and you will see what I say is true.

Hey but don't get me wrong, I think most of the members on this site are very helpful and nice people, and the site is very rich in valuable information(which is part of the problem trying to find exactly what you want, hence so many newbies asking dumb questions, search features on forums can be notoriously bad).

Basically I feel a very small percentage of your members who are regular repliers to newbies posts are very rude and are doing your site more harm than good...... I know I won't be posting any dumb questions on here, though I certainly will be reading thru all your valuable info. Any questions I have, I will be posting on other forum/s as I do not like being told I am basically a lazy prick and should do more reading, which is totally wrong. Maybe you should ban newbies so you don't have to put up with their questions if it is too much trouble for you to answer, even not answering is better than abusing people.

[blanikdog]

Johnboy, I took your advice and googled Home Distilling and you are quite correct. I got 6,260.000 distilling sites. You, and any others, have a vast number of choices, so go for it.

However, I went into and I looked at quite a few and saw the quality of the sites, Utubes showing prison hooch. Amazing all plastic stills. On and on it goes telling how simple home distilling is. Safety is totally ignored. What it doesn't show is the number of folk who leave this forum because they can't be bothered doing personal research or perhaps they believe they deserve better that all others, because all their life everything has been done for them. Even universities are being dumbed down to suit this type. Now, I'm not for one moment suggesting that you fit this mould, or that any others do. I'm simply stating a fact. An inconvenient one, but none the less, a true one.

Now, back to the folk who come here and leave because it's too hard for them, and because they are 'special'. Many of them eventually wander back here - usually with a different handle, but not all - because they found that the grass on this side of the fence is actually greener than they believed.

This forum has never suggested that one should read 40,000 posts. We suggest that relevent posts are read. I challenge you to show me where a new distiller has asked about pot stilling and was told to read all there is about reflux. Or told to read everything about yeast when asking about turbo. Or to read everything about vodka whem asking about flavoured spirits. Or any of the complaints put here by 'special' lazy new distillers.

The experienced folk here did a lot of work putting together a new distillers "Reading Room". Is it too much to suggest that it is read when someone asks how to make a pot still? Or is this a suitable recipe for rum when there are a thousand posts on rum recipes. Or whisky? Or can I distill Storm beer or Fosters lager to make whisky?

One day Johnboy, you may be a mod or a mentor in here. How will you handle the time involved answering the same question several hundred times? I know, you will treat everyone with kindnes and love and explain in the most minute detail everytime won't you? There are too many folk who are 'special' and will drive you crazy, and when they start hounding you over non distilling related matters you will just accept it won't you.

I don't respond to many in here anymore simply because the 'special' people shit me to death. I was never 'special', nor was Rad or any of the others that are criticised. We did our research and asked relevent questions.

Perhaps more should try it. It's amazing how much more one learns by working to learn.

My last word about the "SPECIAL" people.

Stay Safe

[Dnderhead]

you say 40,000 post, this thread adds another 14 or so ,the next one has to search.

[johnhopper1957]

I don't respond to many in here anymore simply because the 'special' people shit me to death. I was never 'special', nor was Rad or any of the others that are criticised. We did our research and asked relevent questions.

Perhaps more should try it. It's amazing how much more one learns by working to learn.

My last word about the "SPECIAL" people.

Stay Safe

I think your special It just wouldn't be the same around here without you Love your posts......

[johnboy1234]

Well said blanikdog.......I totally agree with what you are saying. Just so you will know, I am a administrator of several forums and social networking sites and completely understand how F%$#ken frustrating it is to deal with people that can't even be bothered to read 4 words, let alone a whole post. I am also aware of how incredibly hard it is to organise a website with vast amounts of information so everyone can understand where everything is, as I am a web designer as well as a musician.

My only reason for putting up this thread was to possibly make the admins of this site aware of the hostility towards newbies that comes across in this forum. Forums are where people of all varying degrees of knowledge and experience come to, to find out more, or specific topics. Can you imagine if you went to a website and wanted to know more and clicked on the FAQ's and the answers were, go look it up ya lazy bastard. This of course is a huge exaggeration of what I have experienced on this site, but I hope it gets the point across of how I feel and I know others have felt as well.

Now as a webmaster I know how easy it is for me to sit here and criticise you, everyone is a critic, but not everyone gets out there and does it, which you guys have done, and very successfully I might add. You have a wealth of information and lots of really experienced knowledgible members. BUT there is definitely a problem with newbies here!

You guys have grown enormously from what I can gather, and need to focus on what direction you actually want this website to go in. You have several choices or you can just go along as you are getting plagued with dumb newbie questions, that clutter up the forum and make it even less user friendly.

I have suggestions, but I will only post them if you want me too, as I do not want you to think I am telling you what to do and attack me for coming on here and telling you how you should run your site. I am only calling it as I see it, and NO I am not special I have had an extremely HARD life and only got out of it what I have put in. Special people I feel sorry for, as they never experience the satisfaction of doing it all by themselves!

[rad14701]

johnboy1234, you're not the only webmaster around here... Several of the "management", and even regular members, run other forums as well as being server administrators... Some of us even get paid to develop and put policies in place for small, medium, and large corporations as well as municipalities and other government agencies... While you are welcome to voice your opinions here you should realize that there may be good reason why we sometimes take the stances we do and that we are entirely aware of how they may be interpreted... One aspect, but surely not a major factor, is to see just how serious a member may be with regard to the hobby of home distillation... The implications are far greater on several different levels than many new members have ever considered... Trust me, Johnny Law isn't going to be all warm and cuddly should he decide to come knocking - or not knocking... As Uncle Jesse once stated, this ain't stamp collecting...

Your statements of "you guys" and the like cause me to wonder where you feel that you fit into the equation with regard to the Home Distiller family... You joined so you are one of us... You're not an outsider looking in... You are a member who is expected to meld into the conglomeration of different nationalities, social statuses, levels of wealth, and levels of knowledge, that comprise this very diverse membership... You don't have enough time and experience here to be our consultant, however... Should you have further comments regarding how the site should be run they would be better served by PM'ing the Administrator and Moderator Groups... There is little benefit in trying to start or prolong a pissing match over how these forums should or should not be run... You would be better off concentrating your efforts on the fine art of home distilling...

The kind and subtle hints in this post shouldn't require further clarification...

[johnboy1234]

Fair enough! You won't hear me making comments about the site again.