Achieving 95%

[Nightside]

Hoping someone could lend some advice. I've been running a 3"x84" column with head condenser coils and output arm condenser. As much as I've tried I am always only able to achieve 88% ABV. My charge is a 40L 50% stripped run. My cooling water is outputting at 60 deg F. and my head temp is a consistent 172.3. The column has 6' copper packing (rolled mesh, not scrubbers). If anyone has any ideas please share, this is really starting to get to me. Thank You

[steve2md]

Ethanol is hydroscopic. If your area is humid, it may be absorbing water from the air. Try slowing down your run. The temp will self regulate as different alcohols cook off. go super slow for a higher purity. adjust your temp down to 1-2 drips/second and don't touch it. the temp will raise on its own

[Nightside]

I took it down to 600ml/hr. After equalizing 30 min. Still 86%

[Bayou-Ruler]

Ethanol is hydroscopic. If your area is humid, it may be absorbing water from the air. Try slowing down your run. The temp will self regulate as different alcohols cook off. go super slow for a higher purity. adjust your temp down to 1-2 drips/second and don't touch it. the temp will raise on its own

Indeed ethanol is hygroscopic.

[Odin]

I think your set-up is a bit ... tall. Now that should only increase purity. So what's wrong?

600 mls per hour is not enough. My first guess would be: throw more power at your rig and try to get closer to 3 liters per hour. Your rig should easily do that. I mean 3 inch diameter, 50% low wines ...

Another advice: lower those low wines a bit. Just for safety. 30%, 40% max.

What type of rig are you running? VM? LM? CM? A picture might help.

Odin.

[emptyglass]

What type of rig are you running? VM? LM? CM? A picture might help.

Odin.

Odin's right, a pic might help, or at least let us know what sort of column it is.

[LWTCS]

+1 Odin.
More power= more vapor
More vapor= more reflux
More reflux= more purity

Can still collect at a slow pace if your reflux condenser is performing optimally.

[Maritimer]

What about insulation? That's a lot of area to lose heat from.

M

[Nightside]

Sorry, trying to figure out the picture thing. It is a VM column double coil in the top with a collection plate at the arm. Ball valve on the arm leading out (also a condenser on the arm). The unit was built by Rainier Distillers, everything else I've been running has been great but this keeps escaping me. lol. Maybe too little power then as Ive been running the boiler around 176 (intentionally trying to keep water vapor down). No insulation though. It has dual 5500 watt elements in it on a controller box so I can really crank it if necessary.

[Odin]

Crank up the power!

[Prairiepiss]

Maybe too little power then as Ive been running the boiler around 176 (intentionally trying to keep water vapor down).

I'm thinking you haven't figured the theorys out completely. You can't control the temp of the boiler. The ABV of the boiler charge dictates the temps. The boiling point of ethanol is 173. But you don't have 100% ethanol in the boiler. You have a mixture of ethanol and water. That mixture depending on the ABV will have a boiling point somewhere between 173 and 212. And won't boil to vibe you the proper amount of vapor. If you are trying to control the temp with heat input. You should do some more research on the VM theorys. And operations. Until you understand it proper. You won't get the best you can.

+1 Odin. Forget about trying to control the boiler temp. And crank the heat up. I highly doubt you will need 11000 watts. Little overkill. But that 3" column will need at least 3000 to 4000. Best guess. But there are plenty of threads about operating a VM that will help you around here.

[Nightside]

Thank you, I admit I am new to a lot of this. It was a simple hobby idea that ran away on me. I'm learning new stuff everyday. I'm always looking to make the best product. No shortcuts! Any help is always appreciated.

[Odin]

No problem. We all started with this hobby once!

I feel confident you will have a steep learning curve from here onwards. And better product along the way!

Regards, Odin.

[steve2md]

Ethanol is hydroscopic. If your area is humid, it may be absorbing water from the air. Try slowing down your run. The temp will self regulate as different alcohols cook off. go super slow for a higher purity. adjust your temp down to 1-2 drips/second and don't touch it. the temp will raise on its own

Indeed ethanol is hygroscopic.

Thank you for the correction.

[maheel]

It is a VM column double coil in the top with a collection plate at the arm. Ball valve on the arm leading out (also a condenser on the arm). The unit was built by Rainier Distillers,

this bit might be an issue, why does VM have a collection plate ?

or does it have a LM point as well to pull off heads 1st ?

just asking as i was thinking it might be collecting a low ABV there and not refluxing it properly or something ?

Pics would help

[Nightside]

Misunderstanding on my part. It is a LM I believe.

[rad14701]

We really need pictures... Is your valve regulating Liquid or Vapor...??? If you can't figure the uploading an image issue then perhaps you could point us to an appropriate facsimile thereof from one of the design topics in the New Distiller Reading Lounge...

[Prairiepiss]

Misunderstanding on my part. It is a LM I believe.

Well you gota know what kind of still you have. Before you can figure out how to get the most out of it.

[Nightside]

Here is a photo before adding the full column, water condensing coils in the top with a ball valve regulating Liquid output

[rad14701]

Without better pictures and a better description of this slant plate thing, we can't determine if that should be a Liquid Management or Vapor Management... It would depend on the slant plate placement...

[oakback]

I have a 5' tall, 2" copper column, boka still, insulated, packed with copper mesh, that I've ran with both propane and electric. I've tried ridiculously slow drips with high heat for ~12 hours for lots of reflux (went through 3 propane tanks), and quicker runs (low reflux rate) with both gas and electric. I can't ever seem to get better than 92%. Same whether I strip and run low wines, and run it straight from the fermenter. I just figured it's "good enough" and not try to chase the dang 95% that everyone and their brother seems to get so easily around here.

[emptyglass]

looks like a boka, smells like a boka, must be a boka??

Sounds like your not going to be limited by heat input, comes down to the condenser and how it performs. It would be well worth a bit of reaserch to get the best out of it, but you should get pretty good results.

It might be a bit short to get super abv figures though.

[Prairiepiss]

If packed correctly and enough heat is applied. A 5' packed LM should be able to produce 95% without a problem.

[Nightside]

Well I took some of everyone's advice. Putting 6500 watts into it. Balanced for 30 min. Cracked open only to about 2/3 gallon per hour. Still best is 91%. Someone suggested go up 2'. Still looking for the TTB 95%

[Odin]

6,500 is a bit ... over doing it.

Odin.

[Mazriam]

6,500 is a bit ... over doing it.

Odin.

I would throw 6500 watts at it, until the wash/mash came up to 190~, Then dial it down to 900-1000 watts, and go from there. 6500 watts during the distillation process itself, is far too much, even for a 15.5 gallon keg

[Prairiepiss]

6,500 is a bit ... over doing it.

Odin.

Not to mention. If you were throwing 6500 watts at it? And the column didn't flood. You don't have the column packed tight enough.

[Prairiepiss]

6,500 is a bit ... over doing it.

Odin.

I would throw 6500 watts at it, until the wash/mash came up to 190~, Then dial it down to 900-1000 watts, and go from there. 6500 watts during the distillation process itself, is far too much, even for a 15.5 gallon keg

He wasn't talking about heatup. And 900 to 1000 isn't even enough for a 2" reflux still. And is what I run for a 2" pot still. A 2" reflux needs around 2000 to 2400 watts to run good. So a 3" is gona need at least that much. But more like 3000 watts or better.

[Nightside]

Well 93% with 5000 watts. Gonna check my packing next time. Thanks guys.

[Odin]

Pack it tighter. Heat up at 6.5 kw until boiler temp is 60 degrees C, then lower to 4 kw. Until product starts showing. Now turn down to 3 kw to stabilize for 30 minutes, then start collecting, again at 4 kw.

Not saying that this is perfect, but for sure a better starting point than 6.5 kw on the one hand and 1 kw on the other. You now heat up to hard too long. And the run at 1 kw is just not nerely enough to create the amount of gasses needed for refluxing to get you to the proper amount of re-distilllations.

I still feel 3 feet is not enough, with the packing you use. Say a well packed column with scrubbers has an HETP of 9 centimeters. This means you just get like 10 or 11. You should have at least 15. So, yes, with additional reflux (upping the reflux ratio), you can get close, but at the costs of the product output quantity a 3 incher should provide you.

Lava rock or SPP will get you to 95% easier.

Regards, Odin.