Yeast VS Yield

[FlounderPounder]

I am rather new to the scene but I have learned a bunch already. I have made about 6 or 7 good 10-gallon runs. I have a reflux still that sits on a half keg. Up to this point I have only used cracked corn to make whiskey. My process begins with cooking of the corn in water to "turn the starches into sugars". Wait for it to cool then add some enzymes and yeast.

My issue... I am only doing a 10 gallon run. However, I am not yielding much from a run. Well I did my very first run but haven't done as well since. My first run produced about 2.5 quarts. Every run after that has only made about half as much

I have tried to determine what variables could be controlling the yield but wanted to reach out to the guys that have done this before I am pretty sure at this point the yeast is the variable I need to change. My first run consisted of some 48hr turbo yeast from a local HB shop when all the other runs consisted of some standard brew yeast. Only problem is that 48 hr turbo yeast is like $18-20 for one 10gallon mash. The standard brew yeast I have been using is like $10 for like 25 of the 10gallon mashes (by following instructions on the bag).

Questions:
1.) Is the 48hr turbo yeast the magic ingredient I need to stick with? (My time is worth a lot to me. I don't mind spending the money to make twice as much if that's what it will take.)
2.) Can I just add more of the standard brew yeast to yield more?
3.) Is there something else that could be controlling my yield amount that I am overlooking?

Thanks!

[MichiganCornhusker]

Are you checking your starting and finishing gravities? Doubt it's the yeast, and my understanding is that Turbo makes crappy spirit.
Starting gravity, along with an Iodine test will let you know if you are converting your corn well.
Final gravity will let you know if your wort is fermenting out completely.

My process begins with cooking of the corn in water to "turn the starches into sugars". Wait for it to cool then add some enzymes and yeast.

Sounds like you could do a little more work understanding the process with corn, too. Working with corn is tough if you don't thoroughly understand the process.

Keep at it, it will get easier.

[SoMo]

You're either confused or not getting your thoughts out right, cooking corn makes the starches available to convert, it doesn't do the converting, enzymes or malt are necessary obviously.
Turbos are for making fuel no beverages, bread yeast works better and you only need 25 cents worth for a good mash. Sounds like you've got seem mass reading to do, do that reading and you'll find a lot of answers to these questions and questions you don't even have yet. Read,read,read! Good luck.

[Galeoturpis]

Crikey, what a post! In addition to sugars and ammonium, yeasts need about 60 different minerals, half a dozen vitamins and two fats plus a regular pH to thrive. My problem with turbo yeast is that I have absolutely no idea what goes into their proprietary formula! Corn and enzymes is a pretty good start but it still lacks some nutrients. Look up self nutrient data to see what is in cracked corn. Add the rest of the missing nutrients and pitch your yeast greater than 5 grams for the wash. If you pitch at 120 g that should be enough to brew the hole thing out fairly quickly. There are just too many variables and if you havent mashed properly, even though you have topped up with starch enzymes, there may not be enough lysed protein. If you want a quick, nasty result then heat your mash above thirty degrees celsius, make your FAN above 500 mg/l and you can ferment out in 24 hours. As far as yield goes, two kilograms of sugar should achieve 1 litre of 100% alcohol at best. If you don't geT That yield there could be a hundred things that are going wrong. The consensus on this site is to stick away from Turb because it tastes like euugggh, has "magic" ingredients and is expensive in the long term. Please put in your failed recipe so we can all see what mistake you've made and say " nyah, Nyah- I told you so! "

[MichiganCornhusker]

Oh, Galeo, I've missed your clear, concise, insightful recommendations.

[Jimbo]

haha MCH.

Galeo, In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.

Ive run 100% corn with enzymes. No problems. Converted well, made a nice drink.

Go tell the grape growers in Bordeaux that their soil sucks and is deficient in 47 minerals. They'll tell you no shit, its the bit of suffering and slightly reduced yield that results in better grapes with more condensed flavor. I dont know if that applies to mashing or not LOL, but its a funny related anecdote.

[DAD300]

My process begins with cooking of the corn in water to "turn the starches into sugars". Wait for it to cool then add some enzymes and yeast.
No...you cook to release starch and add enzynes at appropriate tempd as it cools.


Questions:
1.) Is the 48hr turbo yeast the magic ingredient I need to stick with? (My time is worth a lot to me. I don't mind spending the money to make twice as much if that's what it will take.)
Use anything but Turbo Yeast...
2.) Can I just add more of the standard brew yeast to yield more?
More yeast may make it start faster... end quicker
3.) Is there something else that could be controlling my yield amount that I am overlooking?
Complete recipe, temp, starting gravity, cleanliness, running of still,...

Get the ferment down first and then we can talk about your still and running it.

[MitchyBourbon]

FlounderPounder,

Give us all the details of your mashing and fermenting process and maybe we can help you.

[FlounderPounder]

Sorry I haven't responded! Been pretty busy lately with a lot going on.

Bare with me as I am very new to the process but I am "starting" to comprehend things a little more clearly as I go through these comments.

Well to start with no, I have not been checking my gravities but I will start doing so. Mashing/fermenting is definitely something I am going to do more research on.

My recipe included 6lbs of sugar, 6lbs of cracked corn, and 6 gallons of distilled water. Cook the corn with 5 of the gallons and use the last 6th gallon for straining and cleaning the cracked corn one last time after it has already been cooked/strained out. Cool it down and then add 3 tablespoons of some brewers yeast along with 6 emptied capsules of some wal-mart/equate brand digestive dietary enzyme. Double the recipe to get my full mash I normally run.

I tried to do a ph test on my water before adding the corn and I had to add a little bit of I think it was calcium. Looked like a finely ground white chalk. Got the water to a "neutral" level then proceeded as normal. This didn't seem to change much.

I have tried iodine testing a shot glass full of the mash. I was using the pictures of the iodine test from I think it was uncle jesses simple cooked rye mash as reference.

Bottom line is I think I need to start research more about gravities during cooking the corn. Determine what the gravity should be when the corn is finished cooking so I know how long to cook it etc.

When I double the recipe above, I let it ferment for about 4 - 5 days. After running it, I typically end up with about 5 pints. 12 gallons down to 5 pints.

[thatguy1313]

The gas-x enzyme is not a replacement for amalyse enzymes or malt to convert starches. Also, if you're straining the corn out before adding enzymes then there's nothing left to convert. In short, you've made a sugar head wash without many nutrients for those yeasties. I think you'd enjoy UJSSM in the tried and true section. Its a great starting place for corn flavored spirits and doesn't require any cooking. If you absolutely want to mash the grains then go with a tried and true recipe and follow it to the letter.

[rad14701]

FlounderPounder, what you have there is a 3.5% potential ABV sugarhead wash...

[DeepSouth]

With the amount of sugar you are using, 12# in 12 gallons, you should be seeing between 7-8% ABV in your initial wash. You've got yeast problems too, or only waiting 4-5 days isn't long enough. You need to check your specific gravity.

[rad14701]

Grrr...!!! Yes, I confused cups with pounds... Was so tired last night I never even drank my first drink I had mixed... One cup (1/2pound) of sugar per gallon gives 3.5%... One pound (2 cups) per gallon gives 7%...

[Jimbo]

Sugar is 46 PPG (points per pound per gallon). That means 1 lb in a gallon it will make 1.046 gravity. If you ferment it dry, to 1.000, then the equation for ABV is OG-FG*133 = 6.1%

[DeepSouth]

Theoretical conversion of sugar to ethanol is 51.1% by weight. That means 1 pound of sugar will ferment into 0.511 pounds of ethanol. Ethanol has a density of 6.58 lb/gal. 12 pounds of sugar will ferment into a maximum of 6.132 lb of ethanol or 0.932 gal of ethanol. 0.932 gallons of ethanol in 12 gallon total volume yields 7.76% ABV. Assume 90% fermentation efficiency and you have almost 7% ABV exactly.

[FlounderPounder]

Wow, that escalated quickly. I need to familiarize myself with these formulas more. I am looking to get another batch going soon and I will report back. I have taken several notes from some very useful input from everyone. I have what I need to take the gravities and do the iodine starch tests so I should have a good report.