Parent Site Calculator Accuracy For Commercial Stills

[palinkagus]

Hello all,

I would like to start off and say thank you for all of the inspiration I have received from this forum over the years. Due to the knowledge gained here and the assistance of my partners, we are opening our craft distillery, Copper Kettle Spirits in Freehold, NJ! We will be entering the market with our vodka and coconut rum. We have our TTB permit are looking to go live early this summer.

I am designing a vapor management still for our vodka production. I've been plugging my numbers into the parent site calculators, but I wanted to check to see if anyone else has used that resource for a large still. I have a 250 gallon Bain Marie boiler with 33,000 watts worth of heating elements.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!!

[pfshine]

Congratulations on the startup. As for the calc it should be bang on for heat up. The dilution might get wonky on ya due to exothermic reaction when adding water.

[palinkagus]

Thanks pfshine! I'm looking to make a 6" column with 2.75 meters of copper mesh packing and a 4" product take off and condenser. I'm a little confused with the condenser sizing calc. results for the reflux condenser. Are those results accurate for a reflux condenser or only product condensers?

[rad14701]

You're going to find that using copper or SS structured/mesh packing to be problematic on any column over 3" diameter as it compresses under its own weight once whetted... You'll be better off with a more rigid type of structured packing...

[Bushman]

You're going to find that using copper or SS structured/mesh packing to be problematic on any column over 3" diameter as it compresses under its own weight once whetted... You'll be better off with a more rigid type of structured packing...

I agree but am not as conservative as Rad and would say anything over 4" but of course I don't run mine as often as a commercial set up would.

[palinkagus]

I am looking to build the column with 20" spools, each with a support grid at the base of the spool to retain the packing above. Wouldn't this be sufficient to prevent the packing from compressing?

[pfshine]

Scoria/lava rock does wonders so I'm tole.

[rad14701]

I am looking to build the column with 20" spools, each with a support grid at the base of the spool to retain the packing above. Wouldn't this be sufficient to prevent the packing from compressing?

Whether or not you ended up with voidage at the top of each section is the subjective consideration here... Personally, I'd be going with a more rigid structured material like scoria/lava rock, marbles, ceramic saddles, raschig rings, or SPP...

[DAD300]

I see all the calculators as very good and accurate. I even use then to backdoor some calculations.

You can use your actual heat up times to estimate your actual watts or BTU's. This will get you to the efficiency of your gas burner.

EXCEPT, that product Condenser Size thing. Either it assumes something we don't know or it is way the frig off. I've tried a lot of calcs with it.

The only way it gets close is if you try to figure the watts of power getting to the condenser, not the watts under the pot!

Assume 3,000watts power at bottom of boiler, and a 75% efficiency (2,250) and a reflux condenser taking half of that (1,175) it says you need 30", comes close to most peoples actual experience.

[palinkagus]

Personally, I'd be going with a more rigid structured material like scoria/lava rock, marbles, ceramic saddles, raschig rings, or SPP...

Thanks for the input rad! My concern is that the more rigid materials require more column height than I have available, at least according to the calc's. In my mind's eye I can't see the scrubbies compressing to the point of being a problem as long as they are supported every 20" with a grid at the bottom of each column section. Am I off base here?

[palinkagus]

I see all the calculators as very good and accurate. I even use then to backdoor some calculations.

You can use your actual heat up times to estimate your actual watts or BTU's. This will get you to the efficiency of your gas burner.

EXCEPT, that product Condenser Size thing. Either it assumes something we don't know or it is way the frig off. I've tried a lot of calcs with it.

The only way it gets close is if you try to figure the watts of power getting to the condenser, not the watts under the pot!

Assume 3,000watts power at bottom of boiler, and a 75% efficiency (2,250) and a reflux condenser taking half of that (1,175) it says you need 30", comes close to most peoples actual experience.

Thanks DAD! My pot is a Bain Marie with 6-5,500 watt electric elements (33,000 watts total). Except for heat loss to the surrounding air I'm close to 100% efficient (am I right in saying that?). I would like to keep our water flow through the reflux condenser to a minimum (using municipal water for cooling). Based on those parameters, what would be the suggested size of the reflux condenser? (looking to go with a shotgun)

[bearriver]

With that much juice you should be using an 8 inch column. 33k for stripping runs and warmup. 21k for spirit runs... Still Dragon's 8" dephlegmator is almost 9 inches long. 8-7/8". That's what I would buy/build.

All CM's that I have seen using a shell in a tube style dephlegmator have a length that is near equal to the diameter. For example a 4 inch dephlegmator typically is around 4 inches long. Longer just adds to the height and material cost.

[UnSub]

Thanks pfshine! I'm looking to make a 6" column with 2.75 meters of copper mesh packing and a 4" product take off and condenser. I'm a little confused with the condenser sizing calc. results for the reflux condenser. Are those results accurate for a reflux condenser or only product condensers?

Just a thought, if there is a packing compression issue; you can always use a rigid copper or stainless screen and make a Cin-a-bun like "cartridge. That would support it top to bottom, even in the inner most point of the packing.

[DAD300]

bearriver has good advice on the deplegmator.

There is a post elsewhere, 4" column using a CSST reflux condenser. 6" column you could use 1" o.d. CSST, 8 spirals/coils minimum, better order the 50' roll.

https://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item. ... lexTube100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[bearriver]

There is a post elsewhere, 4" column using a CSST reflux condenser. 6" column you could use 1" o.d. CSST, 8 spirals/coils minimum, better order the 50' roll.

Good advice.

Perhaps this is the thread/post you are talking about?: http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... 2#p7383223" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow