Fusing copper

[RippoZero]

I recently started my second still build. i plan to make it a bokakob with ferrules so that i can dismount it for easier storage, cleaning and utility. I'd like to make it everything the last one was not. One thing that bothers me about the last one was how frail it is. This is partially due to to fact that I'm using silver solder. I've read a lot in both the forum and the main site but i am yet to find something detailing the pros and cons of different methods of fusing metal. What do you guys recommend? The picture is of an old still we've had in the family for two generations. The stuff used to fuse the copper is sturdy as heck so i was wondering if any of you guys could tell me what it is.

[rad14701]

Looks like it was brazed using common brazing rod to me... I've seen other copper stills brazed with flux covered brazing rod... Wouldn't be my first choice but better than lead based solder...

[just sayin]

Harris silphos zip is a high phosphorus copper rod with no silver, cheap and strong, no flux required. Silphos with silver is easier to learn but more expensive. No lead!
These alloys are high temperature, I always used them with acetylene/oxygen.

[pfshine]

Or you can tig it with way less annealing. When you braze copper it becomes very soft.

[just sayin]

True enough, Pfshine. High heat does soften copper. TIG is the premo method of joining copper.

[RippoZero]

copper becomes softer after being heated? food for thought i guess. I'm not willing to buy and learn tig welding right now though i might do it one day. I looked up some different types of rods. I'm considering a brass based rod with 40% silver for it's lower working temperature and ability to bind to stainless.

Harris silphos zip is a high phosphorus copper rod with no silver, cheap and strong, no flux required. Silphos with silver is easier to learn but more expensive. No lead!

What do you mean when you say easier to learn? In my fiddling with silver solder I've found that there is not all that much to it. Is it possible to use the filler metal to glue stuff in place if it's not a perfect fit?

[Hound Dog]

If you are really worried about soldering with silver solder being weak read this link.
http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... =1&t=44594" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Think that the water in high rise buildings is in pipe soldered with soft solder holding water pressure from many floors. If you are doing something to your still that silver solder can't hold up to, you should rethink your stilling methods.

[Sungy]

We use silfos 15 for refrigeration work. That there shiny new A/C unit that runs on R410 has pressures between 300 and 550 pounds per square inch gauge pressure (psig). If your worried about pressure ...dont. Now silfos 15 or 5 is still stronger than the copper your attaching together. If it is the water piping conections to the condensers, then try to flair the water lines. Remove the lines from the flair block and insert it upside down. Gently tap the the flair to a 90 deg flange. I hold then to the condenser with hose gear clamps ( 6 inch). They tend to rock a bit so I usually try to give the flange a bit of a tap on the side to contour it to the condenser. Now you have a flat ring to solder with lots of surface area and very strong.

Like this. Used 95/5 for that one.

[WIski]

Or this way....... http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=21258

I have done this and it's very very strong.

Thanks PP

[underdog]

I run a 2" modular Boka with 2 tri-clamp stainless fittings. I can remove the column and mount the Boka head directly on my boiler when I want to do pot stilling. I have a 24" Liebig as a product cooler that connects to my output valve that makes it easy.

In order to get the stainless tri=clamp fittings, I cheated. I ordered 2 of them from a vendor on eBay already attached (brazed) to 4" of 2" copper.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beer-Keg-Moonsh ... xy3zNSk-BX ...uh, they used to be cheaper....

I used 2" soldered couplings to put them on either side of my 2" column. If I can solder copper, anyone can (yes, I had a MAPP torch in each hand, what's it to you?) If you don't use Type L copper, it's easier to solder (and much cheaper, too). Type L is what I had, though.

My Boka head was made from another 2" piece of copper (18 inches long) that I ordered from the same guy with the tri-clamp fitting already braised to the copper.

I did everything else myself, but I haven't had to think about those brazed connections. My still is pretty tall, and those connections have a bit of stress on them. For me, it was money well spent. Anyway, it's something to consider.

I love my still and the folks here that shared the information necessary to get it up and running.

Good luck!

[RippoZero]

Ah been a while. Those damned studies. I eventualy gave in and followed the advice i`ve been given. kept using normal silver solder to attach some flanges i ordered from here: http://www.distillingdominoes.co.uk/tri ... ne-gasket/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. The page lied about the dimensions and the flange turned out to be slightly to small for the capillary action to suck in enough solder to hold it in place properly. My thinking is that a brazing metal can fill larger voids and might allow me to use the stuff I bought. the other alternative is making easy flanges. Atleast that way i will be able to use the clamps.

[FreeMountainHermit]

Ah been a while. Those damned studies. I eventualy gave in and followed the advice i`ve been given. kept using normal silver solder to attach some flanges i ordered from here: http://www.distillingdominoes.co.uk/tri ... ne-gasket/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. The page lied about the dimensions and the flange turned out to be slightly to small for the capillary action to suck in enough solder to hold it in place properly. My thinking is that a brazing metal can fill larger voids and might allow me to use the stuff I bought. the other alternative is making easy flanges. Atleast that way i will be able to use the clamps.

In your opening post you asked about copper fusion. Now we see that you're buying brazing supplies.

I'm confused ?

BTW, none of the methods described above are fusion methods.

[corene1]

The only way you can fuse copper is with a TIG unit and a fusion weld. As far as brazing goes I have never had a silver brazed joint let go under normal operating conditions, if done properly. I guess you could beat it apart with a hammer if you really wanted to test it. Harris safety silv 45 is the go to in our shop as well as the harris stay silv flux. I prefer the black flux for stainless to copper, it seems to clean better and hold up to a longer heat time. I have done many high pressure connections with this set up. It is also pricey at $40 dollars an ounce. Harris stay brite 8 with harris stayclean liquid flux is the strongest and most cost efficient of the standard lead free solders and is quite strong when done properly for joining copper to copper or copper to stainless.
Your thought on silver braze filing voids is not sound , The higher the silver content the more viscous the solder or brazing material is at flow temperatures. Just my thoughts though.

[RippoZero]

Ah been a while. Those damned studies. I eventualy gave in and followed the advice i`ve been given. kept using normal silver solder to attach some flanges i ordered from here: http://www.distillingdominoes.co.uk/tri ... ne-gasket/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. The page lied about the dimensions and the flange turned out to be slightly to small for the capillary action to suck in enough solder to hold it in place properly. My thinking is that a brazing metal can fill larger voids and might allow me to use the stuff I bought. the other alternative is making easy flanges. Atleast that way i will be able to use the clamps.

In your opening post you asked about copper fusion. Now we see that you're buying brazing supplies.

I'm confused ?

BTW, none of the methods described above are fusion methods.

I realise now that the name of the forum was a mistake from my side. i ment joining copper.