noobs

big worm · Post by **big worm** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:25 am

it seems to me the noobs get ripped up pretty harsh here at times, a stupid question is still a question. i know folks get tired of the same ol shit being asked time after time but, the novice forum is where you start....i wonder if simply not responding with a harsh bullshit tone mite help a bit. what i'm saying is if you deem the question stupid or lazy...just don't reply to it. leave it to some one who is willing help them...if a truly bad question is asked and left unanswerd it would make the person reflect on what he/she is asking perhaps do some reading to help themselvs. a post left unanswerd is a testamony to look on your owen and find out why no one is talking to you. i just hate seeing folks getting whipped all the time...im just ranting on....be nice and help or just ignore them but don't be cruel JMHO
bw

Post by **minime** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:30 am

That how I handle everything. I don't like it, I ignore it...........works for me

Post by **Barney Fife** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:33 pm

Agree. If you don't want to answer it, skip it. There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers, as long as it's in the novice section.

Folks need to remember that not everyone can read something and get the gist of it. For many, reading about something simply raises more questions than it answers, often in a different way than the original author presented it. If all we had to do to learn everything, correctly, is read, read, read, our schools would not have teachers there to explain it to our kids, now would they? Once they'd learned to read, we could just set them down in a library to finish off their education

Post by **minime** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:52 pm

Barney Fife wrote:Folks need to remember that not everyone can read something and get the gist of it.

You make a good point about some folks not being able to grasp what they read. One of my longtime friends can barely read at grade two level. He is also one of the most extraordinary people I know. He runs a large autobody restoration business, builds some of the most elegant and detailed replica sailing ships you can possibly imagine and takes care of his family and hobby farm with a dedication and attention to detail rarely seen in todays society. I'm sure if he visited this site he'd not likely understand very much. He loves my rum but has no interest in the hobby. Too bad 'cause I think he'd be terrific.

big worm · Post by **big worm** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:28 pm

barny makes a good point, if its a first post or two and, the poster is asking something that he would have read easyly..like is this leagl? or how do i make a sugar wash? just ignore em. sometning like whats the best still for? or some other silly little thing help if you can. if you don't wish to help fine don't, just don't be nasty. i really hated to make my first post here for fear of being whipped. i done a lot of reading in here and still need some things made clear to me....i'm not stupid because i don't type well. i'm a rather handy fella. i took shop instead of typing...lol i think unanswered posts would be more effective. bitching and yelling ain't worked to good so far.

Post by **HookLine** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:59 pm

i think unanswered posts would be more effective. bitching and yelling ain't worked to good so far.

I strongly agree with that. There have been too many occasions here when a noob got jumped on way too hard, for no good reason. It does not give us a good name doing that, and does not get our message across as effectively.

One example not too long ago was particularly bad, and I regret not saying something about it at the time.

We have lost some good people because they could not be bothered putting up with the bullshit.

Behaving like an obnoxious a-hole does not make your point any more legit or make it more effectively. Some of the toughest and most effective operators in this world are also very civil and quietly spoken.

It is also true that a lot of people are not so good with word based learning. We do need to allow for that.

Just my 2c worth.

big worm · Post by **big worm** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:27 pm

damm well said hook....."
It is also true that a lot of people are not so good with word based learning. We do need to allow for that." i have a hard time writing i always have. i can build a house without blueprints. i just can't put thoughts into words and type..lol

violentblue · Post by **violentblue** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:41 pm

big worm wrote:barny makes a good point, if its a first post or two and, the poster is asking something that he would have read easyly..like is this leagl? or how do i make a sugar wash? just ignore em. sometning like whats the best still for? or some other silly little thing help if you can. if you don't wish to help fine don't, just don't be nasty. i really hated to make my first post here for fear of being whipped. i done a lot of reading in here and still need some things made clear to me....i'm not stupid because i don't type well. i'm a rather handy fella. i took shop instead of typing...lol i think unanswered posts would be more effective. bitching and yelling ain't worked to good so far.

thats actually a good question, in my area I've spoke to some people more knowledgable than I, and I cant get a solid answer on legality, some say its fine as long as you're not selling it, others say no way, and even others say its not legal, but they can't prosecute you unless you're distributing or contributing to the deliquincy of minors. Legality may be clear where you are at but not everywhere, I've yet to find an answer based on law.

big worm · Post by **big worm** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:56 pm

violentblue wrote:
big worm wrote:barny makes a good point, if its a first post or two and, the poster is asking something that he would have read easyly..like is this leagl? or how do i make a sugar wash? just ignore em. sometning like whats the best still for? or some other silly little thing help if you can. if you don't wish to help fine don't, just don't be nasty. i really hated to make my first post here for fear of being whipped. i done a lot of reading in here and still need some things made clear to me....i'm not stupid because i don't type well. i'm a rather handy fella. i took shop instead of typing...lol i think unanswered posts would be more effective. bitching and yelling ain't worked to good so far.

thats actually a good question, in my area I've spoke to some people more knowledgable than I, and I cant get a solid answer on legality, some say its fine as long as you're not selling it, others say no way, and even others say its not legal, but they can't prosecute you unless you're distributing or contributing to the deliquincy of minors. Legality may be clear where you are at but not everywhere, I've yet to find an answer based on law.

if you live in usa- any of the states-and you do not have a fedral permit--you are an outlaw this is fedrel not state or city/county kind of thing.even if there was a law on the books in your county/state that its ok....the feds still rule the roost.

Ayay · Post by **Ayay** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:35 am

Done a lot of reading and lurking...noobs have been shot down in flames. In many cases they were rescued and in others they deserved it. Even if they deserve it, their loss is our loss.

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:12 am

you need another forum called - no child left behind -. some folks dont need to be round open flames.

so im tole

Post by **Husker** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:15 am

These Whiny n00b threads are getting very boring.

We do NOT feed noobs here. We will help all new (newbie's) which are people who actually want to learn, and are willing to do what is needed.

The spoon fed NOOBS have no place here. like someone mentioned in another noob whining thread, they are like the unruly pup that simply comes into your house, and shits all over the carpet, but then never learns, and keeps shitting all over.

It is VERY easy to tell the difference between a true newbie that is here to learn, and a noob, which comes in wild and willy, and demands to be told how to do things.

There was about a 6 month period where I tried to give help to every noob/newbie that stumbled in. There were a couple really good newbies, who have became some of our well known current members, who joined in that time. However, there were also many dozens (maybe a 100) who were true noobs, who simply demanded to be spoon fed, but contribute nothing to the forum, and years since have brought NOTHING of value here. Now, the few people who HAVE stayed, were pretty easy to see as being newbies, and that they were likely to be committed enough to stick around, and learn.

Learning this this craft IS sort of an apprenticeship. It IS helped greatly by newbies (we ALL start out as a newbie) get help and information from journeyman. However, the journeyman is not expected to coddle and babysit the apprentice, but simply to help the apprentice find the appropriate reference and research materials, and to help guide the apprentice in the right direction, and help to correct mistakes. The apprentice (newbie), is STILL the one that is required to do the work to LEARN.

Yes, on the board, it is too frequent that many of the regulars will flock and flame a noob when they do stumble on to the board. However, if people look closely, it does not happen often that when a newbie arrives, that they end up with the same treatment. Now, when people "claim" they are scared to post, they should really have a look at what they were about to post. If it is a question, which is not simply one of the 10 or so questions every noob that stumbles in and posts, then the question is very unlikely to have a negative reply.

As for these whiny "dont pick on noob" posts, they are getting old.

H.

Post by **Barney Fife** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:39 am

The apprentice (newbie), is STILL the one that is required to do the work to LEARN.

As one who has had apprentices in the real world, an apprentices 'job' is to ask as many questions as needed in order to understand the procedure correctly, and it is the journeyman's 'job' to accept all questions as valid. This is not coddling. It's how we learn. We learn by reading, yes, but if don't understand what we've read, we must ask for clarification.

Yes, some have obviously not done any reading, and for them, we need to steer them back and tell 'em to go read, read, read. But most noob questions are in fact legit.

maoule · Post by **maoule** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:36 pm

We must remember that there is a tremendous quantity and variety of information on this website available to any and everybody. If a noob doesn't know what he doesn't know, some of these threads can be very intimidating. Many were the occasions(before I joined the forum) I was going to ask a question but read a bit more and got my answer. Maybe some thought should be given to limiting what info/topics are available to noobs, or offer a step by step to them which gets them to a basic understanding before they start posting to the "advanced" threads. I agree with Husker here...it's annoying to read a post that should obviously be in the novice section. I've noticed everybody checks and answers novice questions frequently, so maybe the "novice" term should be modified to soften the stigma of posting in the "novice" section as a novice. I can say, there was no effin' way my first post was going to be in the novice section...sheeeeeit. People'd think I was some kinda noobie or sumthin.

Post by **rad14701** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:35 pm

Well, as I was reading down this thread I was hoping someone would voice an opinion similar to mine... Thanks for breaking the ice, Husker... I think it helps to have a modicum of staunch advice even in the novice forums...

This really is serious business... People really do get hurt or worse... People really do go to jail... People really lose families because of their actions... If they can't take some straight forward, non-candy coated, responses here then they'll be in for a rude awakening if and when they think they can sweet talk Judge John Brown or their future cellmates Rupert and Cletus who've been lonely for some soft skin for a long time...

brianstequila · Post by **brianstequila** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:18 pm

As a noob I don't feel like I've been ripped on at all. But, I have tried to read as much as possible before I ask a question. One problem is the "slang" in all of it. I have read and reread some things and had to look up alot of words. I think the problem is is most don't read, the threads I've seen about people getting ripped all they had to do is read everything before asking. I will say there needs to be somewhere were all the slang in it is explained.

Thirsty Bob · Post by **Thirsty Bob** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:15 pm

Hey BT

I think what you are looking for is here:

http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Glossary" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cheers,

Bob

The Chemist · Post by **The Chemist** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:16 am

brianstequila wrote:As a noob I don't feel like I've been ripped on at all.

Damn. We've been falling down on the job. Where's tater???

Nah...I'm not for tearin' somebody a new asshole just cause they're a noob...but it's not an endeavor for idiots...whatever happened to the guy who's stupid roomate wanted to 'still in the garage?

I hope he survived...

Balance...that's the key...

Post by **Hack** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:42 am

What I don't like to see is a dogpile on some noob, tearing him a new one, for asking an obvious question. I don't see much use, or benefit to a noob, in ten of us ripping him apart when one of us telling him he needs to read more conveys the message adequately. I tend to feel less and less this way though if I see a noob who continues to ask obvious questions and seems to want his hand held. In the end, my being rude just makes me look bad so I try to avoid it.

Post by **Tater** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:45 am

yep after 1 or two rips I figure they should of gotten the message.

big worm · Post by **big worm** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:12 am

i would like to ask any of the mods to lock this thread if it starts to turn nasty. i did not mean to start a fuss. i was just tossing out an idea about ignoring idiots who are lazy and don't care to help them selves. husker you'r right on the money. i don't belive some who visit here are worth wasting a second on, child like little trolls that get pissed and leave. i feel like an idiot for even making the orignal post. i just wanted to help try solving the age old prob.....not create a new one. or add to the existing one.
my apolliges to all
bw

Dr_T · Post by **Dr_T** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:18 pm

I'm a noob, and my questions have been handled pretty well, mostly.
Maybe I ask better-than-average questions.

(There was a bit of fuss with punkin, but in the end I just let him be and he left me alone, and now it's cool.)

I honestly was nervous posting the one question, but it turned out ok, so... there you go.

Post by **HookLine** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:55 pm

For the record, I certainly ain't suggesting noobs get a free pass or kid glove treatment. There will always be one or two who do need to be spoken to hard, and perhaps even occasionally told to f**k right off.

But the reflexive pack stomping of noobs in particular is ugly and unnecessary, and doesn't help anybody. There are quite a few comments on various threads about how somebody was afraid to ask questions for fear of being jumped on hard. That is not a good situation.

We can be firm, especially about safety issues, and still maintain a basic civility. Much better to point a newcomer in the right direction, rather than just run them down for asking an ignorant question or two. Much more productive in the long term for everybody.

That's all I got to say about it.

Enjoy your holidays. Hope Santa brings you something nice.

Peace.

smeag · Post by **smeag** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:04 pm

If one doesn't have any tuffer skin than the poor picked on noob, then this sport/art/hobbie/forum is not for them

Dr_T · Post by **Dr_T** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:11 pm

You're missing the point- if y'all gang up on a noob and chase him away, it's not the noob who loses out. It's you.
There's no telling *what* somebody brings in with them- somebody could be a huge resource, and you'd never know it.

Edit- examples? Anybody here a lawyer? A doctor?

Post by **blanikdog** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:20 pm

Well said, hook.

As for locking this thread, haven't we had enough of this bullshit this year, for chrissake???? Locking, deleting, 'moralising', ridiculing other forums, tempers raising and all the bloody rest of it. It shits me as it must shit others so just let it run its course. It's probably there now anyway.
I just wish there was a way to block these topics to allow us to decide what we want to read. I don't want to read what the fools who denigrate this craft for their own personal satisfaction mouth on about.

blanik

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:21 pm

dr t you talkin phd or medical.
how pray tell is we missin out if a docter or lawyer leave? think a medical docter would be
a bit skitsh from givein diagnoses an such on line with malpractice like it is.
if you talkin phd id be thinkin theyd be purty versed in research.

so im tole

Dr_T · Post by **Dr_T** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:25 pm

Well, I was thinking MD, but you're right about the problems of giving advice online.
But wouldn't it be sweet to find a PhD mycologist, who actually *knows something* about yeast?
Or a million other professions, that was just an example.
This forum is a community, and the more experts we have- in all possible fields- the more we all gain.

On another board, we have a lawyer. He's great about giving opinions about all sorts of legal stuff, for free. He always puts in an disclaimer, he's not an expert, we haven't hired him, etc... but we pretty much believe what he says about stuff when he puts his 'lawyer hat' on.

Edit- I'm not a doctor, it's just my name. I am a trained computer programmer, though. And a cook. And a couple other jobs.

big worm · Post by **big worm** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:58 pm

well we do have a chemist

as "our" chemist spoke of earlyer i to would like to know if the roomie blew them up.

Dr_T · Post by **Dr_T** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:22 pm

big worm wrote:well we do have a chemist

More than one, if hobbyists count.

Mycology too- but although I know a good bit about growing various kinds of fungus,

I didn't start in on yeast until this summer.

But still I'm surprised that nobody here know the first thing about yeast.
Lots of great copper fabricators; nobody knows what does yeast eat?

Home Distiller

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