"sugarshine" question for the newbs

[LWTCS]

Seems like this,,,,,,,,,,adjective has made it's way to the forums more so lately.

Been pretty darn happy with the "sugarhead" recipes presented by the forum (thankyou).

Purists may think otherwise, but the,,,,,,"All Bran" (for instance) recipe renders a very,,,,,,,,,,,dependable product on many levels.

New members have used the "Sugarshine" description lately to describe a product that may be a less desirable,,,,,,,,,,,yeild. I say try the "All Bran". Then use sound stilling practices.

Please characterize your,,,,,,,area's "sugarshine" and define it's flavor profile.

I suspect the bad press is NOT due to..............solely sugar.

[Freedave]

while i haven't used that word 'sugarshine', i have expressed a bit of frustration in trying to make a palatable neutral from sugar. yes i wanted something to drink straight, (martini). guess I'll be the first to admit it. I've tried wposw and a few variations. inverting the sugar, stripping/spirit runs, running my still in different ways per advice from you good folks, and i do collect in ml cuts, air, and try our best to follow all the normal practices.

i run a 3' 2 inch slant plate bokakob, with an 8 inch single coil condenser on a propane fired half barrel. bout 25 inches of brewhaus rolled copper packing.

problem is, i can't really put into words what my product tastes like cause i haven't ever tasted a flavor like it in any commercial liquor. it's just a dominant, unpleasant, harsh flavor that makes me say 'what the h is that?' as i said in my 'brandy experience' post i did not taste any off that flavor in the white wine brandy we just made.

i realize many folks have a longer column and that i may well have still been running my rig wrong. but. we decided to shift gears and try the brandy thing (i do live in wisconsin after all). 37 years ago when i was 15 my older sister would get a quart of j bavet for my friends and i on a friday night. my expectations are not too high.

hope this is the kind of re you expected.

[FLquacker]

HOLLY COW!!.....I ACTUALYY......think I understand the premise!!!!

As a newb..... I've messed with sugar washes because of the simplicity. Trying to figure out the way to run MY still.....

Same ole' same ole'....just seems to have the same characterictis....nasty smell. rubbing alcohol then straight to nasty cardboard...without a way to seperate!!

OK....so here's my deal and recipe:

Seems most of the sugar wash recipes here are tailored for the reflux gang...I'm basically a pot stiller...

Just finished tonight a run from a ferment that was this...really simple..... 6 (ea) 12 oz grandmas molassis and (4) each 2 lbs bags of light brown sugar. I inverted the sugar and mollassis on 2 gallons water..then added water to fill my 20 liter pot, then waited for...(No patience) iced a little of the wash to about 105*.....then.....drumroll.....please.....1/2 pack turbo classic. (I have yet to find the reason for the thought for "imparted nasty taste' if making rum)

Bakers yeast vs turbos.....whole 'nother discussion....

It fermented for about 2 days....then I set it in the spare fridge for another 2....

This was the best wash I have run!!!!

The 1000 ml was still dripping at over 80abv.....remember, I'm running basically a pot still.

Here's what seems to be the case I've found.... 8 lb sugar washes don't get it with pot stills. (at 20 ltr pots)

My (6) jars of molassis added to the wash....seems to set it off in a positive way.

But here is an interesting point.....using an 8 lb sugar wash, what may have been considered tails cut at 40% abv...now becomes a tail cut at 60% abv with this recipe.

Learned.......tails can be 35-60 % abv......depending on your wash.

Man I wish it was easy to convey what I think I've learned.......regardless, I have blended some awesome rum.

Edit....stumbling around...searching for the light switch...rum and coke

[olddog]

There aint nothing wrong with a good sugar wash made with bakers yeast, but you have got to ferment until dry, double rack it and run it slow. The off flavours are caused by lack of patience to let it finish properly, and then racking it directly into your boiler taking the yeast with it that has not cleared properly.

[FLquacker]

I would tend to agree with that......the "puke smell" seems to come with distillation containing "non cleared" washes.

[olddog]

Any spirit produced should be left to air for at least 48hrs, I usually air mine for a week.

[mississippimoon]

I would tend to agree with that......the "puke smell" seems to come with distillation containing "non cleared" washes.

this may be a dumd question, sorry, but how are we supposed to "clear" a wash before distilling?

[olddog]

You leave it til its finished fermenting and all the yeast and other things you put in your wash will sink to the bottom, the wash is then considered clear.

[LWTCS]

Hey Freedave,

Thanks for responding. I remember reading your posts about trying to dial in a martini grade spirit. Oh the toil

Recon my post was not worded correctly for some one like you, who has been making strong efforts to to get a nuetral,,,,,,,,,nuetral enough to suit your critical pallet. Its good that you are trying evermore to increase quality.

Clearly sugar is not the prefered source for everyone.

Happy stilling
Larry

[plonker]

Interesting reading this thread, I did a lot of work with making neutrals a couple of months ago. I test a lot of yeasts and sugar types. Tried champagne yeasts, a wide variety of turbos and beer yeasts, and of course baking yeasts.

I found champagne and wine yeasts did not seem to like sugar washes... (i know some other guys have had good experiences, but I didn't)

Turbo's were always dirty.. great yields but way too many nasty flavors, even if you shoot for 12% and below. Even on the second or third run of the same yeast with natural nutrients, still nasty. I still have 5l of 95% that I will need to run through carbon to clean up.

Beer yeasts are great, and what really surprised me.. bread yeast works great. And its so cheap you can throw 100g into every wash.

I tried Brown sugar, white sugar, raw sugar, dextrose.. not a lot of difference after running through my VM still. The yeast made a much greater difference.

So IMHO, I suspect a lot of that sugarshine taste is from the yeast used, the ingredients used and how the wash is fermented. A good way to test is to taste your wash, if it tastes nice it will distill nice.

I have since moved to pot stilling with really clean tasty washes. I only use beer and baking yeast and keep the temps low, and the difference is huge. Even if my cuts are a bit off they still taste really good..

[rad14701]

I have found that take off rates can be just as critical as proper cuts when it comes to neutral spirits... Even with my small scale stove top still I can produce very clean neutral spirits... The trick is keeping the ABV as high as possible by maintaining a constant vapor temperature at the top of the column... If I stay dialed in at 172F/78C for the entire run it really doesn't matter what is in the boiler, it comes out clean... However, if I decide to speed things up and run just a bit hotter, say 174F/79C, there will be a marked difference in taste... One wouldn't think that it would make that much difference but it does...

One additional issue to note is that there can be differences even at 172F/78C... You can keep steady at that temperature and running a lot of reflux or you can be right at the break-out point of the temperature inching up... The amount of reflux is the key here... Taking off 6 drips per second can yield a totally different spirit than 3 drips per second at temperature, for example...

[LWTCS]

Really good feedback, Thanks so much for the dialog.

Hoping more New Commers will contribute to the discussion and help create avenues to bebunk perceived "Qualities" that may or may not be inherant with sugar washes.

[Freedave]

i'm not quite sure about what you (cornbread) are unsure about. but i'll give it a try from my perspective.

for a long time i've thought about this Hobie. but being from the north i've had no experience with any diy's myself. my reasons were, just being curious, i'm a 'hands on' kind of guy, just always thought it would be the neatest thing to do, saving money was not a reason for me.

then i stumbled on this site and started reading, one day i was talking about it with an old friend and he said 'lets do it'. he only had to say it once. we both like Chopin vodka martinis so we decided to proceed in that direction. well as most of the threads i've started will tell you, we have been unsuccessful at getting martini worthy vodka from sugar. potatoes are just too much time and mess for my situation. like the idea but its just too much, even mashing grain seem a bit out of reach for us. thats why we are now trying the wine angle. making it from concentrate. brandy is the goal.

so far so good , i like what i've tasted so far. oh and by the way has anyone else tried a new commercial spirit from Australia called boomerang vodka? made from wine. not for a martini butt on the rocks, i think it's the greatest thing.

any way, thats where we're at. and the best part is all that i've learned about all spirits in general. that has also been a huge benefit to this Hobie. getting good booze is almost secondary at this point. we've had a lot of fun, like you all know.

[LWTCS]

What happened to CB's post?

I was going to comment and then it was gone.


Rum is my likker of choice, so sugar/panella/cain juice is an automatic for me.

I do not live in an agricultural area. Rice would be the only readily accessible grain for me.

While learning to drink, I never really liked the scotches or bourbons.

Hopefully, my homeboy (pumpman) can hook me up with a good taste of corn likker one day.

Furthermore, the All Bran and Cornflake recipes have helped me want to expand and seek out.

And to give credit where credit is due, these basic recipes have infact tought me how to run my still without investing lots of messy hours learning how to put together a grain ferment.

First things first.

I'll get to it.

[rad14701]

Yeah, I had typed up a long reply as well and scrapped it when I saw the the post vanished...

Oh, yeah, here's what I wrote... Forgot that I'd copied it to my clipboard... If a mod deleted his post, feel free to delete this entire post as well...

I still don't understand.......Most people on this site use reflux stills and make Vodka(OK..I oversimplefy). They add flavoring. I just don't understand it unless you have one point.....to save money at the liquor store. What am I missing here? Would Popcorn Sutton roll over in his grave?
Have you ever tasted good ole corn likker made in a pot still? I repeat...What am I missing here? Even the southern folks on here make "vodka". Sorry about my tirade...but I just don't get it. I really wish someone would explain to me what I am looking at wrong? _Please? Thank You in advance

You're a bit inaccurate on your assumptions, Cornbread... I'd say it's a 50/50 split between pot stillers and reflux stillers here and many members run both... Due to the fact that reflux stills come in more variations and are more difficult to build and drive, although making pot still cuts can take years to master, it may appear that more folks run them...

Also, if you do some web research you will find that Popcorn Sutton primarily ran sugarhead corn liquor for years because he could churn out more product quicker with greater consistency...

Not sure where you got the idea that most neutral spirit has essences added... Most either use the neutral spirits like vodka or use them to make flavored liqeours... The use of essences is primarily brought up and discussed by novices who either want to mask failed attempts at clean spirits or haven't done enough research to know that that isn't how you attain flavor... Once they learn about aging they scrap the essence concept for the most part...

Personally, I like neutral spirits, whether straight or mixed with water, flavored sodas, or even Kool-Aid... But I do pot still some washes when I want flavor to carry over into my spirits...

[Freedave]

yea, good question. what happened to cornbreads post? thought i was going crazy there for a minute. glad you saw it too lwcts.

[LWTCS]

I think Cornbread may have edited his response after re-thinking based on his real time experiences of late.

What with powdered ear lobes and the like.
Maybe I'm wrong (Prolly I'm wrong).

No matter. Preconcieved notions seem to be getting worked out. Thats good.

[HookLine]

Mods ain't guilty. CB deleted his own post.

[pumpman]

Hopefully, my homeboy (pumpman) can hook me up with a good taste of corn likker one day.

although making pot still cuts can take years to master

Hey Larry I've got it sitting in glass. I thought I got my cuts right but somthing seems a bit off. As rad said I gues it can take some time to master. Maby after it sits for a month it will taste better. I've kinda shut down for now on every thing cause money is getting a little tight. So the rocket top will have to wait. As far as sugar I don't see anything wrong with it, it's easy. After I get things right down here I will try to do some mashin. Corn will be at the top of my list.