LM to VM **EDIT** First run right now! come on in!

[LearJet]

Ok reworked my offset LM and converted to VM. I just set it up with water and vinegar to clean it up a bit before running a wash through it. As you can see it was up to temp. Ran it for over an hour like that with the gate all the way open and not a single drop came out of the output end! I obviously have some sort of serious design flaw, was hoping someone can tell me what it is.

[olddog]

It's cos there's no alcohol in your wash.


OD

[LearJet]

I know theres no alcohol in vinegar and water, shouldn't distilled water come out? Nothing came out. Not one drop.

[olddog]

My plated still did exactly the same on a cleaning run, but when I distilled an alcohol wash I get spirit from the output.


OD

[LearJet]

What's the reason behind this phenomenon? I have a wash ready to run I will try tommorow but I can't for the life of me grasp a reason why water shouldn't come out. If it won't put out water at all this is going to be one effecient sumbitch if it will let ETOH through and not water.

[olddog]

Its all do do with the temperature of your still, if you increase the temp to 100 degrees you will get water, anything less you will get nothing.


OD

[LearJet]

Ok, I will run a wash through it tommorow then. So do you have any comments on the design? It's a 48X2 inch column. Leibeg is a 1/2 inside a 3/4. Column is filled with copper scrubbers.

[olddog]

It should be fine, if you adjust the flow to your top condenser to achieve a still temp of 74 degrees you will pull of alcohol,the reason you are getting nothing at the moment is that you have primarily a water based wash, and water evaporates at 100 degrees which is why your still temp increases during the run as the alcohol is being depleted.


OD

[kiwistiller]

Congrats, you've built a VM that works just as it should! The reason you collected nothing is one of the advantages of a VM design. Ethanol is heavier than air, and will want to sink out your output. steam is lighter, and wants to rise. A mixture of the two will do both, but as it depletes and vapour drops below ~40%, output will cease. It's called the auto shutdown effect sometimes, but not so much these days. Neat trick, eh?

Complements on the build, looks nice. you might find the takeoff rate slightly restricted by the small takeoff port, but there are tweaks for that later if it becomes a problem.

[LearJet]

The take off port is 1" stepped down to 3/4". Couldn't source a gate valve ane bigger than that locally. However now I am more confused. Why do you need a valve at all? If a VM stops producing when the ABV drops below 4o what purpose does the valve have? Won't it be wide open all the time?

[kiwistiller]

Why do you need a valve at all? If a VM stops producing when the ABV drops below 4o what purpose does the valve have? Won't it be wide open all the time?

you need a valve because you aren't aiming for 40%+, you're aiming for~95%. to compress heads and tails, it is necessary to reduce takeoff and slow down output.

The take off port is 1" stepped down to 3/4". Couldn't source a gate valve ane bigger than that locally.

It doesn't seem to matter if the valve is small (down to say 3/4"), what matters is the relative areas of the takeoff port and the column.

[Samohon]

Nice convertion LearJet. I have a Bok above a VM, when I done the cleaning run with vinegar and water I wondered why no distillate was coming out of the VM Liebig. After a little reading on the parent site I found out that alc was heavier than water. That, and the fact that ethanol vaporises before water (78C to 100C, respectively) was enough for me to put some cleaning feigns through the stilll. Certainly got me for a moment, but after I put alcohol into the still it worked fine.

Just to interate OD, Kiwi and others. The valve controls the amount of vapour passing through on it's way to the liebig. This in turn adjusts the amount of reflux going back to the column. I can tell you, It works great for me. Foreshots are taken at stripping time. The heads are taken with the Bok (LM), hearts with the VM and then I switch back to the Bok (LM) to take the tails. This, for me, keeps heads and tails together in one take-off while the VM ensures that only the hearts will be taken.

I'am getting 96% abv everytime and the neutrals are very clean and smelless. The output Tee on my column is 2" x 2" x 2", reducing to 3/4".

I use a metal disc behind the valve handle tightening nut, the disc has 10 marks going around equally numbered 1-10 anti-clockwise. The handle or knob of the valve was marked at the top while the valve was in the closed position. This takes away the guess work for me while I'm running the VM. I have to set the valve differently on my small stove-top column rather than when I run my 1500mm column in the garage. This is due to the heat source provided to the boiler. One is a kitchen stove while the other is a propane banjo burner. Yours will be different again LJ. You just have to find your own sweet spot on the valve to keep the temps correct.

Good Luck LJ and please let us know how she performs.

[LearJet]

Well I intend on running a 6 gallon UJSSM I have ready to go tonight. I ran my LM a bunch and could never get better than 88ABV so I decided to go this route. If I can get 95ABV I will be extremely happy. The column is clean, I will clean up the liebeg in the sink real good before I run it I guess. I will probably use anything I collect tonight as feints anyways as this is a fresh start UJSSM. My goal is to produce a Vodka that I can pass off as store bought, wasn't able to get rid of the off taste with the LM setup. I will report back with the results.

[LearJet]

Ok, first run is going now. I am currently pulling foreshots. I brought her up to a boil and turned the heat down as low as I can get it. Let it stabilize for about 30 minutes. Temp is 78.6C right now. I am going to pull 200ml as foreshots slowly. I am hoping the temp drops down to 74-75C. The water coming out of the condensor is pretty warm but not too hot to touch. I may see if I can up the cooling water. It is coming from the city water supply and it's fairly warm to start with this time of year. If anyone has any advice on driving this thing now would be a great time to hear from yall.

[WalkingWolf]

If anyone has any advice on driving this thing now would be a great time to hear from yall.

Like this line. Might be something you'd say from the cockpit of a "learjet".

Nice to hear you getting some output. Good luck.

[LearJet]

Ok, I upped the flow to the condenser, water coming out is the same temp as it is going in pretty much now. I can grab hold of the top condenser and the leibeg and they feel the same temp as the cooling water. spirit comnig from the liebeg is same temp as the water too. I just closed off the valve to let it restabilize for a bit after pulling 200ml as foreshots. The temp at the top of the column was 77.6C when I closed off the valve and came in to type this. I Really would like to see a lower temp there but it seems I have done all I can to cool it off. I am using a gas burner and if i turn it down any lower it is gonna go out. I cleaned and repacked the column before I started this run, using loose copper scrubbers. I wish some more of you would come around and check in on me

[Dnderhead]

I cant quite figure why you want the temps. at 74C? any thing that low most likely will be fores, ethanol at 78.3c
but each still is a bit different, Id run it off in small lots until you know.

[LearJet]

Well because I thought that was the temp I was supposed to be aiming for. If you say otherwise I will listen. If thats the case then it's going well. Now if I can get a qt an hour out of this I will be happier than pigs in shit. Gonna go start pulling the heads now.

[kiwistiller]

78.6 is spot on what my rig reads at during hearts. my thermo is out by about .2-3 *C. water coming out warm is a good thing. you can expect heads/foreshots to be at least 10% of your total yeild. I'd start looking for the cut point after that. remember, collect in small containers, and you can cut carefully later.

[LearJet]

ok heres an update. I have pulled off only about half a quart. Temps seem to be steady at 78.9C right now. Output is a little less than I desired. I am gonna let her run for a bit the way it is and see what happens. If I open the valve anymore than it is now temps go up to about 79.5C but the output is a lot better. I haven't messed with the gas on the burner at all.

[olddog]

Go for it Learjet, I told you it would be OK.



OD

[LearJet]

Well last night's run was a learning experience. I have a few more comments. After awhile I realized I could add more heat and really didn't affect the temp much. Even with high heat and a wide open valve the head temp only went up to 81.9C and this was well into the tails anyways. Then it just quit. Just like you guys said. slowed to a crawl and shutdown. This left a lot of etho in the boiler. I am going to have to build a stripping head now, that way I can strip my washes and then do a spirit run with the VM. I think it will run much better with low wines in her. Plus I will gain a potstill for flavored spirits, assuming I ever make something that is worth tasting. Thanks for all your help guys. I am also thinking of swapping the 2x2x1 Tee for a 2x2x2 to help output. Anything else I can do to get the rate up?

[Samohon]

Then it just quit. Just like you guys said. slowed to a crawl and shutdown.
Thas what I like about the VM, it takes the guess work out of when to make the cut. The temp spikes and the tails start to tell on your nose and tastebuds. Works everytime. I then swap over the heads jar just before this happens. Keeps the middles clean....

This left a lot of etho in the boiler.
Not really an issue with the VM. The spirits taken off from the heads and hearts are very high proof. I actually swapped my pot-still head over as an experiment to see what the percentage of alc was left in the boiler. My distillate came off at 20C and was 34% abv. It smelled and tasted awful so I closed the rig down. I have my Bok above the VM and maybe take 1L of head feigns after closing the VM valve, but thats all. With the amount of 190 proof the VM has given me, IMHO I just cannot justify the time or power needed to take off all the tails. Not worth it for me....

I am also thinking of swapping the 2x2x1 Tee for a 2x2x2 to help output. Anything else I can do to get the rate up?
Replacing the Tee equal to the diameter of the column will certainly make a big difference with the take off rate. I think it will also enable you to reach your sweet spot more frequently.

Hope this helps a little LJ. Every rig is different and I feel sure that you are well on your way to finding what works best for you...
Keep us posted man...

[rad14701]

As already noted, there is very little worthwhile alcohol left in the wash after the VM stops running... Even with my LM column I don't expend much effort in chasing after a few ounces of extra tails... It's just not worth the time and effort...

The overall lack of spirit volume can be attributed to the high %ABV of what you are collecting... The lack of quantity is offset by the increase in quality... Just dilute the high proof spirits down to drinking strength and you'll have ample stock on hand... It takes a while for that logic to sink in for some but once the diluted spirits retain their crisp clean taste it starts making sense...

[LWTCS]

The overall lack of spirit volume can be attributed to the high %ABV of what you are collecting... The lack of quantity is offset by the increase in quality... Just dilute the high proof spirits down to drinking strength and you'll have ample stock on hand... It takes a while for that logic to sink in for some but once the diluted spirits retain their crisp clean taste it starts making sense...

+1

[LearJet]

I know UJSSM is not an ideal wash for a vodka, what do you guys recommend?

[LWTCS]

I know UJSSM is not an ideal wash for a vodka, what do you guys recommend?

A fine vodka I'm sure it (UJSSM) would make.

Try Rads All Bran recipe for a simple yet nice wheaty under tone.

[kiwistiller]

my favourite neutral runs have been from dwwg (deathwish's wheatgerm) made with raw sugar, stripped and treated with sodium carbonate before refluxing.