Strip>Carbon Filter>Reflux ???

[bgrizzle]

OK, I am stuck with about 5 bags of turbo yeast that i bought before i found the holy grail of distilling knowledge that is this forum! So, I made my first run ever this weekend, and it actually tastes ok. I started with about 6 gallons and did reflux run and ended up with almost a gallon on 90% ABV. I diluted this to 50% and ran it through the SS brewhaus carbon filter system. Then i dilluted it a tad more to 40%. It is almost flavorless.

I like to drink vodka and I can drink this stuff no problem. But, I would like to make some apple pie shine and the recipe i have calls for 90+% ABV. I dont want to use this stuff without carbon filtering because the turbo yeast aclohol tastes like ass without filtering.

So here is my question: Could i do a strip run (maybe put a little bit of copper mesh at the base of the column), then carbon filter to get the crap flavors out, then do a reflux run to get my ABV back up to around 90+%?

The problem is that I cant carbon filter at 90% ABV, so I have to dilute it. BUT, I need it be 90% for my recipe.

If anybody here has a better solution, or easier way to achieve this goal, thats what I'm looking for. As soon as I use all this Turbo Yeast, I am going straight to the tried and true recipes so I dont have to carbon filter because its such a pain in the ass.

-grizzle

[Bayou-Ruler]

OK, I am stuck with about 5 bags of turbo yeast that i bought before i found the holy grail of distilling knowledge that is this forum! So, I made my first run ever this weekend, and it actually tastes ok. I started with about 6 gallons and did reflux run and ended up with almost a gallon on 90% ABV. I diluted this to 50% and ran it through the SS brewhaus carbon filter system. Then i dilluted it a tad more to 40%. It is almost flavorless.

I like to drink vodka and I can drink this stuff no problem. But, I would like to make some apple pie shine and the recipe i have calls for 90+% ABV. I dont want to use this stuff without carbon filtering because the turbo yeast aclohol tastes like ass without filtering.

So here is my question: Could i do a strip run (maybe put a little bit of copper mesh at the base of the column), then carbon filter to get the crap flavors out, then do a reflux run to get my ABV back up to around 90+%?

The problem is that I cant carbon filter at 90% ABV, so I have to dilute it. BUT, I need it be 90% for my recipe.

If anybody here has a better solution, or easier way to achieve this goal, thats what I'm looking for. As soon as I use all this Turbo Yeast, I am going straight to the tried and true recipes so I dont have to carbon filter because its such a pain in the ass.

-grizzle

I will pass on some advice that was once given to me. Split the turbo yeast in half or even quarters and cut down on the sugar & it should help with the off taste. The off taste comes from all them nutrients and such that is included with the yeast.

OR

Do stripping runs, dilute it down filter it and then when you have enough do a spirit run. I always do stripping runs to cut down of volume and then Spirit runs separate. I do 20 to 23 liter washes. The stripping runs usually take me about 2 hours. My Spirit runs usually take about 8 to 8.5 hours.

I'm a neutral man my self and my favorite recipe is Wineo's Plain Ol Sugar Wash. I recommend Lalvin EC 1118 Or red Star Premiere Curvee' Yeast. The cheaper of the two is the Red Star and it is what I prefer to use, works great.

[myles]

Are you really atached to that turbo yeast? was it very expensive? Just ditch it and use something more appropriate. I used to use bakers yeast as I could get it for free from the supermarket. Now I boil it for nutrients and ferment with a good ale yeast or wine yeast dependent on the recipe.

Its just my opinion but I think the folks that sell carbon filtration products created turbo yeast to sell more carbon.

With a good (slow) fementation you do NOT need carbon at all.

[WalkingWolf]

Its just my opinion but I think the folks that sell carbon filtration products created turbo yeast to sell more carbon.
With a good (slow) fementation you do NOT need carbon at all.

I agree with you myles. I have never filtered any booze I've made. I've also never used any turbo yeast. I've learned everything I know about making liquor right here on this forum. If I learn nothing else, what I make after roughly 10 months on this forum is better than any liquor I've purchased. Take the time to learn it right. It doesn't take all the latest and fanciest equipment to make great tasting liquor. My equipment is modest by most standards here and this has never been a limitation to the quality of the liquor produced. It's all in how you use it.

I too purchased 2 packs of turbo yeast before I found this site. I've never used them. I threw out an unopened package of carbon yesterday as I knew it would never be used. I was asked this past week if I had ever carbon filtered my liquor. My response was I'm afraid I might take out some of the goodness I worked so hard to get in there. I did hang on to the 2 packets of turbo yeast cause at the rate I build new stills I will use them to brew up cleaning wash.

good stillin

[kiwistiller]

I'll go out on a limb here and offer a different view point...

There's no harm in using carbon. It becomes a bit taboo because it can encourage bad cut making, but if you have a nice, safe carbon system, it can only make your neutral better (assuming you want really flavourless stuff - I prefer a bit of something left, like wheatgerm), and if you have a nice setup it won't be a drama to do it. I would just cut those turbos back to a sensible sugar quantity (like 5kg made up to 25L) and use them. As long as you don't push them too hard, they aren't intrinsicly bad, just like carbon isn't inherently evil. They are impractically expensive, however, their main downside IMO- you can get the nutrients for your yeast much cheaper through other means after you've used up those turbos.

No one needs carbon, it's just another tool at your disposal. Used well, it can improve your products. Used badly, you'll just rely on it and make bad cuts.

In your situation, I would strip, PH treat with sodium carbonate, reflux, cut, filter. Then reflux again if you have to get the ABV up. Alternatively, don't strip, don't PH treat, just reflux, cut, filter, reflux. that would be enough to polish almost anything I'd think, assuming you have a reasonable column.

Oh, and save a single turbo for if you ever need something to do cleaning runs with.

[myles]

I am going to agree with kiwi. There is nothing wrong with carbon. In the past I have used it myself. I used to run a 1 galon pot still and the only way I could get anything worth drinking was to carbon filter it.

I have also used some small hideaway stills out in the desert where they object a lot to alcohol. Carbon is a TOOL and nothing more. Use it if you wish - but there are better ways to make booze so that you don't HAVE to use it.

If you really want to polish your spirit then do so. I think if you ferment realy fast then you will probably NEED to use carbon. If you can slow it down a bit the yeast will produce less nasties and you wont need to use the carbon.

There are no right or wrong answers here. This is a CRAFT with lots of variables. I don't use carbon any more because I don't want to, not because it is 'bad'

[bgrizzle]

Thank you for all the advice. Kiwi, when you say pH treat, what pH should I shoot for? I agree with everything you said. The carbon filtering is a TOOL. I can't tell you how many tools I have sitting around my garage (screwdrivers, chisels, hammers, etc) that I never use! I hope the carbon filter funnel I bought ends up being one of those! Once I refine my skill and perfect my cuts and use better recipes, I dont think I'm going to need to carbon filter.

For now, I think I will use less sugar and cut the amount of turbo yeast down a little. Thanks for all the advice.

[Austin Nichols]

Couldnt you just use the turbo as a substitute for regular yeast in the same volumes as in a T&T recipe?

It would be a shame to waste it if you could use it to do a heap of BW or similar washes for neutrals.

Cheers.

[kiwistiller]

Thank you for all the advice. Kiwi, when you say pH treat, what pH should I shoot for? I agree with everything you said. The carbon filtering is a TOOL. I can't tell you how many tools I have sitting around my garage (screwdrivers, chisels, hammers, etc) that I never use! I hope the carbon filter funnel I bought ends up being one of those! Once I refine my skill and perfect my cuts and use better recipes, I dont think I'm going to need to carbon filter.
For now, I think I will use less sugar and cut the amount of turbo yeast down a little. Thanks for all the advice.

A carbon filter will always be handy, even if it is just for stripping the flavour out of an experiment gone wrong before chucking it in the 'to reflux' keg. Riku's book designing and building automatic stills (good read) recommends aiming for 8 by adding sodium carbonate. you can use bicarb but it takes longer. The main thing is just to get it alkaline though, this will convert some of the ethyl acetate in you boiler.

Couldnt you just use the turbo as a substitute for regular yeast in the same volumes as in a T&T recipe?
It would be a shame to waste it if you could use it to do a heap of BW or similar washes for neutrals.
Cheers.

You could, I'm not sure why you would. all a turbo contains is just yeast and a collection of nutrients, just like a tried and true recipe. better to use it once and then just pitch tried and true recipes onto the yeast cake if you don't want to pay for more yeast. Also, if you were pitching small amounts of it, you'd only be getting a fraction of yeast, and a whole lot of the nutrients you don't really need. Better to use them for their intended purpose IMHO.

[Dnderhead]

Carbon filtering can give you a false sense .as it does not remove "bad alcohols" for the most part it removes organic substances
or flavors. these are usually associated with tales .

[bgrizzle]

Kiwi... you're a genius! I found some sodium carbonate at a pool shop for $1.40 per pound. Cheap stuff! The lady said it was 100% pure, and asked if I needed it for a pool or hot tub. I told her I needed it to clean up some homemade wine. Everybody in the store that that was so funny!

Anyway, I'm going to do a few more batches of the turbo yeast. I will first do strip runs. Then I will treat with S.C. and do a reflux run. Thank you for all your help, and I hope your friends and family are all okay after the earth quake.

-BG

[heeler]

An pple pie recipe that calls for 180 proof hooch????? --YUCK--90% ABV is gonna taste like azz for sure and I bet the apple pie flavor wont cover likker of that strenght. It cant taste good right from the jug at that level. Now instead of adding 1 pint of 180 proof why not 2 pints of 90 or 100 proof? It will taste better and you'll get more of a kick with the 100 proof. You can carbon filter it before hand and it will be much smoother I'm sure of that. I'm not hackin on ya, just an observasion.

[bgrizzle]

perhaps you are misunderstood... read this recipe and you will see why I need to start with 90%abv. The end result is NOT 90% ABV.

Re: Making Apple Pie Shine
by Kentucky shinner » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:01 am

he is what I use and its pretty damn good my freind.

APPLE PIE BRANDY.

Heat one gallon of apple juice.

Add 2 cups of sugar

2 tsp of cinnamon oil

Add 2 tablespoons of apple pie spice.

2 Pints of moonshine 90% ABV

Stir until dissolved.
Let this mixture cool down to room temperature and add one
Quart of 70% ABV or higher Moonshine. Put into jars and let set for two weeks.
you may have to filter out the spices that settle on the bottom.

[Bagasso]

An pple pie recipe that calls for 180 proof hooch????? --YUCK--90% ABV is gonna taste like azz for sure and I bet the apple pie flavor wont cover likker of that strenght.

Could be that the recipe calls for 90 proof so that would be 45% ABV.

As for the carbon I think it's a good idea. I do the same but on a pot still. I just can't seem to shake the tales any other way. I don't use a filtering rig. Just drop the carbon (charcoal actually) into the low wines and shake when I remember to. When I load my pot I just pour out the clear low wines carefully and then I pour off the last of the liquid with carbon into a strainer with a coffee filter. This means that just a small amount has to drip out of the carbon so it goes faster.

[Dnderhead]

many different recipes, what you use depends if using apple juice,cider,concentrate,apples, or a combination.

[rad14701]

An pple pie recipe that calls for 180 proof hooch????? --YUCK--90% ABV is gonna taste like azz for sure and I bet the apple pie flavor wont cover likker of that strenght. It cant taste good right from the jug at that level. Now instead of adding 1 pint of 180 proof why not 2 pints of 90 or 100 proof? It will taste better and you'll get more of a kick with the 100 proof. You can carbon filter it before hand and it will be much smoother I'm sure of that. I'm not hackin on ya, just an observasion.

You should never keep 90% ethanol around where anyone could drink it and definitely should never serve it to anyone... And 90% wouldn't taste bad, it would simply do bad things to your insides... All spirits should be diluted to 80% - 90% for human consumption, and lower for cordials... And if the 90% was properly fermented and distilled no carbon filtering should be required, only dilution to a drinkable proof...

[bgrizzle]

RAD... thanks for the reply. I think that the main reason i had off flavors was because of the Turbo Yeast. Secondly, I think that it fermented at too high a temperature. It was at almost 90 degrees F the entire ferment. I dont think the fast and fiery Turbo helped that much! I did let it clear for a while, and I racked it twice. When I ran it, I ran it low and slow...

I just got back from Wal-Mart with some bakers yeast, and All Bran cereal. I'm trying your recipe next!

About the temperature... I live in a nice house in a nice neighbor in the center of NC. Its still hot outside. My high maintenance wife wouldnt like it brought the ferment bucket in the house if it smelled at all. What I was wondering, is there anyway to vent the fermenter out a window or something??? Has anybody done this??? THen I could leave the fermenter in my office at the house inside a 70 degree room. Would this work, or am I being stupid?!

[WalkingWolf]

That All-Bran ferment will give off a nice smell. Shouldn't be a problem to keep in the office.