uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[shane_o_ca]

I just started my first batch of UJSSM. I'm really looking forward to it. I have a question though. When I mixed the corn, sugar and water, it was kind of a murky. Is this normal? Will it affect the flavor? Thanks

[blind drunk]

Murky is to be expected after you stir a bunch of stuff together. It will stay murky till after it clears. Good luck, relax, it's all good.

[Titus-a-fishus]

Hey Gents
First of all the UJSSM is the best and simplest recipe I've tried so far.
But
This is what I did.
3.5kg cracked corn 4kg sugar 25ltre water and 4tablespoons bakers yeast.

The first generation was magic.... plenty of corn flavour and sweet.
Kept some and oaked it
Currently drinking some and it is very nice to my way of thinking/tasting.

I didn't realise that you don't throw out the cracked corn and start again what a moron
Anyway did a second run with 3.5kg new corn ......
No flavour ... or very little. Remember this is with a new 3.5kg of cracked corn, backset at 20% and the old yeast bed.
Also with the heads/tails from previous run added to the spirit run.

Ok realised my mistake and run the next batch (Number 3) using the same corn from the second run, no new corn .....
No flavour.... what the ....?


So now I am on to the fourth run which is still fermenting after 5days.
2kg of new corn on the old (having removed 2kg of the old)
The yeast bed is now taking up a good 50mm or 2"at the bottom of the fermenter
Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

Each run I use 5ltrs of backset in a 25ltr ferment and have done so since the first run.
Still no sour smell or taste to the ferment.
The fermentation has gone from 4-5days to 7days or so......

I am looking for some corn flavour and am getting neutral to very little flavour.
Always use the heads/tails from previous runs, only run down to 40%

Each run has been done through the same pot still and at the same rate.

TAF

[Titus-a-fishus]

Ran my 3rd generation UJSSM last night.
Still little to no taste.

But have worked out what was wrong with the fermenting times.
PH
Too acid

So with some bicarb soda it is now running very well.
Split the 25 litre ferment into two 25lt ferments and they are going great.
Just have no idea why there is little to no flavour

Now each time I throw the backset into the ferment it gets a half tablespoon of bicarb.

TAF

[WalkingWolf]

What type of corn are you using -- Chops, whole, fresh, canned, frozen, etc? For this recipe it should be corn chops. Keep running the ferments it'll go sour on you. If you let it set for a couple days before you rack off the trub each time it'll sour up by the 5th generation. I've found if you rack and repeat as soon as it's finished it takes a bit longer to sour up.

When you say "no taste" are you talking about off the still? Sometimes it carries a bit more flavor than others (depends on the grains you put in -- freshness, etc) when sampling in the white. Should flavor nicely when oaked. I've had UJSSM white dog almost flavorless and still age into a full flavored spirit. Sounds like you might be rushing it a bit. Have you got any on wood?

Looks like you were still-building a year or so ago. Have you run other recipes? Keep asking questions and we'll get it ironed out. Aged, mixed grain UJSSM is my drink of choice and I've run many a gallon.

good luck

[blind drunk]

Now each time I throw the backset into the ferment it gets a half tablespoon of bicarb.

I think you're gonna get a build up of salt in your backset, which will affect your fermentation down the road -

Have a look -

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... justing+ph

[Titus-a-fishus]

What type of corn are you using -- Chops, whole, fresh, canned, frozen, etc? For this recipe it should be corn chops.
I'm using cracked corn from the pet store.
Keep running the ferments it'll go sour on you. If you let it set for a couple days before you rack off the trub each time it'll sour up by the 5th generation. I've found if you rack and repeat as soon as it's finished it takes a bit longer to sour up.
This may be a part of it cause as soon as one is ready to still the new ferment is up and running.
Have found that the ferment clears very quickly so no real need to rack.

When you say "no taste" are you talking about off the still?
Yes off the still, there is a very slight corn flavour but not much else.

Sometimes it carries a bit more flavor than others (depends on the grains you put in -- freshness, etc) when sampling in the white. Should flavor nicely when oaked. I've had UJSSM white dog almost flavorless and still age into a full flavored spirit. Sounds like you might be rushing it a bit. Have you got any on wood?
The UJSSM I have on wood is good but still no corn flavour which is what I would like to carry over.
Had corn flavour in the very first ferment and loved it....... just can't get it in the following ferments

Looks like you were still-building a year or so ago. Have you run other recipes?
Ran Rad's recipe and the tomato paste recipe..... now sold on the UJSSM it's easy and produces a really nice neutral without off tastes.

Keep asking questions and we'll get it ironed out. Aged, mixed grain UJSSM is my drink of choice and I've run many a gallon.
Thanks for the reply and I will be sticking with the UJSSM for some time to come.

good luck

Thanks
TAF

[Titus-a-fishus]

Now each time I throw the backset into the ferment it gets a half tablespoon of bicarb.

I think you're gonna get a build up of salt in your backset, which will affect your fermentation down the road -

Have a look -

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... justing+ph

Thanks for the link BD - I will go chasing up some chalk soon.
Tried to get a PH meter recently at a pool shop...... no go, all they sell are the test kits.
Will keep looking

Cheers
TAF

[mash rookie]

TAF
Tell us about your still and take off rate? Are you taking off too fast?

I Love my UJSSM. I get a great taste every time. I ran a batch today. I do a one run and done method. My poor excuse of a reflux column struggles to get 85 ABV when running a neutral but works pretty good for UJSSM and Rum.

For me, I run fast. To get the flavor to come through I use my parrot as my guide and take off at 60 – 70 ABV. I collect down to 40 ABV or lower. There is a ton of flavor in the tails.
Blending after airing helps with the heads cut and I am real careful there. I add the tails to my blend as needed to get a rich flavor before oaking.

[Titus-a-fishus]

TAF
Tell us about your still and take off rate? Are you taking off too fast?
It's a 2 5/8" pot still
Take off rate is about 8-900 ml hour
Was about right the first time which is why I am baffled as to why there is little to no taste now.

I Love my UJSSM. I get a great taste every time. I ran a batch today. I do a one run and done method. My poor excuse of a reflux column struggles to get 85 ABV when running a neutral but works pretty good for UJSSM and Rum.

For me, I run fast. To get the flavor to come through I use my parrot as my guide and take off at 60 – 70 ABV. I collect down to 40 ABV or lower. There is a ton of flavor in the tails.
I get from 75% down to 40% before quiting

Blending after airing helps with the heads cut and I am real careful there. I add the tails to my blend as needed to get a rich flavor before oaking.
Usually collect and blend the next day.
Use some of the tails which does have some flavour just not much..... tends to go into off tastes rather than flavour.

Maybe I'm just a bit anxious and need to wait on the next couple of generations.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 32&t=20998

TAF

[mash rookie]

I don’t know TAF,

It sounds like you are pretty much on track. I have used baking soda to adjust my Ph and still had good results but BD may have a point. Maybe you should not worry as muck about the PH as you do.

Ian Smiley writes in his book ”4.5-5.0 is optimal for uptake of the grain starch in sour mash but it can be as low as 3.0 and still work very well” (not quoted in entirety)

You stuff should be getting better with each batch. The backset keeps getting better. In addition the tail cuts keep getting better with each generation.

I blended this morning. After diluting the hearts to 50 ABV. I put almost all of the tails I collected into the blend. Tasting incrementally as I add.

Pretty damn good white dog now. When it comes off the oak in few weeks it should be smooth as silk.

Mash

PS. I have made the mistake in the past of being to high on my sugar and my wash would not finish to dry. I now use less sugar, add a little beano and wait for it to finish dry, perhaps the corn flavor comes in best when the sugar is exhausted and the yeast works on the grain that has broken down?

EDIT; I quit using baking soda. I do aerate my wash with oxygen.

[WalkingWolf]

. . . . Ian Smiley writes in his book ”4.5-5.0 is optimal for uptake of the grain starch in sour mash but it can be as low as 3.0 and still work very well” (not quoted in entirety)

My experience has differed on low pH. When pH is in the 3.0 range I've found the ferments to slow down considerably. I add 2 tablespoons of Calcium Carbonate to each new batch of UJSSM. This will bring the pH into the 5.0 range and the ferment will finish in 4 days. I get my calcium carbonate at the pool supply store. I understand having patience in this hobby and even talk the talk myself but when it comes to fermentation time, I'll adjust what needs adjusting to decrease.

[mash rookie]

. . . . Ian Smiley writes in his book ”4.5-5.0 is optimal for uptake of the grain starch in sour mash but it can be as low as 3.0 and still work very well” (not quoted in entirety)

My experience has differed on low pH. When pH is in the 3.0 range I've found the ferments to slow down considerably. I add 2 tablespoons of Calcium Carbonate to each new batch of UJSSM. This will bring the pH into the 5.0 range and the ferment will finish in 4 days. I get my calcium carbonate at the pool supply store. I understand having patience in this hobby and even talk the talk myself but when it comes to fermentation time, I'll adjust what needs adjusting to decrease.

Good advice WW. Mine take longer than that. Usualy 7-10 days. I think I will go find some Calcium carbonate.

[TexasReflux]

Ok, Ok, decided to try this recipe after all the post about how good it is.

Scaled it up to 35 gallons... It's going strong now, will see how it turns out. Should be interesting to sour mash considering I have a 10 gallon pot still. Lots of stripping in my future.

Hope to have the same results, will keep you posted...

[Titus-a-fishus]

Texasreflux
You won't be disappointed
UJSSM is a really great recipe.

TAF

[TexasReflux]

So far so good, starting to clear/finish and it's bitter (hear that's good). Gonna wait a few more days and begin, looking forward to it.

[waylyn]

Just did my first run siphoned off about 12 ltrs of the top of my fermentation, put it in the still very cloudy but no solids as I filtered it first, but when it started distilling it came out incredibly fast and a little frothy and still cloudy not had anything like this before so I stopped the process and added water to build up the volume in the still waiting for it to come up to temp at the mo, and re-run it will post results A.S.A.P

[waylyn]

OK this seemed to sort it eventually, initially it did the same came out fast and cloudy but slowed down after the first 300ml and clear now, only got 1.2 ltrs @ 80%-70% so don't know if that is right or not but anyway's that's what I had any input would be helpful

[Bull Rider]

waylan:

Posting your equipmnet type helps others to sort out what went wrong. If you're running a pot still, it sounds to me like it puked.

Here's what causes a pot still to puke.

Boiler too full.
Too much heat.
Running a wash that foams when it boils.

Some members run a puke box, kind of like a Thumper, to prevent this type of event.



Bull.

[waylyn]

This is my still
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=21415

[rad14701]

waylyn, you are getting foaming and/or puking... You might be pushing too much heat... That reflux head can only do so much without adding a column extension, as noted in your other topic...

Why would you run UJSSM through a reflux head anyway...??? Did you remove the packing and reroute the cooling for pot still mode like the operation manual explains...???

[waylyn]

Hi Rad14701

I don't have the operation manual for this still, and to answer your question I didn't remove the packaging or reroute the cooling, will have to revise this, is my still OK to extend the column and what would the benefits be looked at the link you sent I was wondering is that plan suitable for my still.

[rad14701]

Hi Rad14701

I don't have the operation manual for this still, and to answer your question I didn't remove the packaging or reroute the cooling, will have to revise this, is my still OK to extend the column and what would the benefits be looked at the link you sent I was wondering is that plan suitable for my still.

This PDF should help even if yours isn't the exact same model...

http://www.essencia.co.nz/Downloads/Exp ... ctions.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Extending the column is simply a matter of adding an extension, using proper connectors on each end, and loading it with structured packing... The improvement when running in reflux mode will be very noticeable by the added purity of the neutral spirits produced... You shouldn't need step by step instructions on how to put connectors on a piece of copper tube...

But the extension is only for running as a reflux column and will not be needed when running de-tuned as a pot still...

[waylyn]

Thanks for the reply 14701

So to run as a pot still is it just remove the packing, I will look for some copper this week to extend the column also, once again thanks for your reply.
Regards Waylyn

[rad14701]

Thanks for the reply 14701

So to run as a pot still is it just remove the packing, I will look for some copper this week to extend the column also, once again thanks for your reply.
Regards Waylyn

You remove the packing AND bypass the reflux jacket cooling so that only the product condenser receives coolant... See the right image on page one of that PDF...

[waylyn]

Again rad thanks, what will the difference be when I distil using it condenser only config will it be generally better or just in this case for this recipe, I have done the chemical turbo stuff no probs and also the allbran recipe no probs, all a learning curve enjoying it, and your link was very informative cheers.
Reg ards waylyn

[rad14701]

Again rad thanks, what will the difference be when I distil using it condenser only config will it be generally better or just in this case for this recipe, I have done the chemical turbo stuff no probs and also the allbran recipe no probs, all a learning curve enjoying it, and your link was very informative cheers.
Reg ards waylyn

The result will be more flavorful spirits due to the elimination of reflux...

[waylyn]

Thanks for the info rad, much appreciated

[Titus-a-fishus]

Ran another batch yesterday.
This is the fourth generation.
Still getting a really nice neutral
No flavour just a good clean product.

Ran the potstill slow at first and then cranked it up to see if it would push flavour over as well.
All it did was lower the %.
Interesting to watch.... the flow increased from say...900ml an hour to about 1200ml/hr and as said no real change in flavour.
Ran the tails down to 35% and even there, all I was getting was an off flavour, very little corn.

The only thing I can think of is there is no flavour to carry over.
This wash was fermenting for a week and left it for another few days to see what happened.
It just bubbled away every now and then, possibly trying to draw out sugar from the corn.

Have already started another two ferments.
So will wait until they are done and then try cooking some corn before fermenting.
I will have flavour eventually.

TAF

[Fastill]

Titus, I havn't gone back and read all your posts, but what are you using for corn?? May have been kiln dried?? or just a crappy corn with no flavor??
I have run off UJSSM at 95% and could still taste too much corn for me to call it neutral. Try a different source for your corn. Maybe that will help??