bernzomatic MAPP torch explosions

[jahtubs]

I'm just about to start my first soldering project and have been reading around the soldering and safety threads before I start. I've just read about a guy having a very nasty accident with one of these torches over on another site. It doesn't appear to have been posted here so thought it was worth mentioning in case anyone has one or is thinking of buying one.


http://www.bernzomaticinjuries.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Mr.Spooky]

if you play with fire,, your gonna get burnt.. this past week, i found out that if you run a oxy/ acc torch across your fingers, it burns a HELLOFALOT worse than a mapp torch.
but you bring up a good point,,,, safty.. there are some unforseen things that we just dont have any control over, but if you slow down, take your time, and think about what your doing,,, you might save yourself alot of greif. sometimes i find myself grabing copper pieces and hiting them on the grinder,,, totally forgeting to put gloves on. i recon if the grinder cought the copper in the right way,, it could spin it out of your hands and posibally F your hand up....
be safe when possible
spooky

[Prairiepiss]

It's always good to keep safety number one. But we are talking about a thin cheap pressurized tank that holds a large amount of a highly flammable gas in liquid form. That in all actuality you lite on fire to use it. These tanks aren't designed for long term use either. So that old bottle setting on the top shelf in the back of the shop should be inspected real good before use. If any thing doesn't look right with it. Rust bulged dented leaking? It should be disposed of properly. And a new one bought. Common safety procedures will always help in all situations.

But if you make something idiot proof. They will make a smarter idiot! When it comes to products like this someone somewhere will find out how to hurt themselves with it.

Edit: No No I was not talking about Byubuk's. I apologize if it was takin differently. It was not my intent. Se post below.

All we can do is make sure we are using the equipment we use in the safest possible way. Much Like the equipment we are building with these torches. We are building a tool to separate a flammable liquid and vapor from a non flammable liquid by boiling it. So safety is a big big big thing in this hobby. Don't ever forget it! Thanks for sharing this. It's nice to get a little reminder every once in a while.

And Spooky I to found out my finger gets really hot when the flame comes in contact with it .

[kenfyoozed]

I might have taken it wrong, but Spooky and Prairiepiss are you saying it was Byubuk's fault for this accident? With quotes like "if you play with fire" and " they will make a smarter idiot" it's hard for me to see the compassion. A fellow human, let alone a fellow stiller got hurt doing a simple task that we probably all have done or used mapp gas canisters. This is a true tragedy and that could have been anyone of us. A known problem should be fixed. I wouldnt wish thus on my worse enemy. Hard lesson to learn for anyone and I hope no one else has so suffer this fate. Try to keep safe guys.

[jahtubs]

From what I could gather from those links this was a result of a design flaw in a particular brand of equipment. It didn't sound like an isolated case especially as someone has gone to the trouble of setting up a website devoted to this particular issue with this specific torch. Seems a bit unfair to call the guy an idiot

[rubber duck]

I don't think anyone in particular is getting called an idiot, or at least not the person mentioned who had his torch explode. I think what was trying to be said was that there are idiots out there and a company that manufactures a product can't be expected to protect them all.

So now that we have that cleared up lets get back talking about torch explosions.

[mash rookie]

Interesting story. No it doesn’t sound like he did something foolish. I have compassion for his injuries. Accidents do happen.

I too have suffered life threatening burns from a propane explosion and spent time in an ICU and burn clinic. A life changing experience that I wish on no one.

I have never heard of this type of failure before and I am very familiar with these torches and Mapp cylinders.

It is probably the most used tool in my shop. I have owned dozens of trigger torches and used hundreds of bottles of Mapp gas. They are dropped, knocked over and generally abused every day.

IMHO They are tough and durable torches. Don’t loose to much sleep guys. Use common sense. Inspect all equipment regularly and you will be fine.

Send this poor soul you thoughts and prayers. The pain he felt is un describable.
MR

[Prairiepiss]

No no That was not my intent. I was not talking about Byubuk's. I apologize if it was takin differently.

Things do happen no matter how safe we try to be. But as long as we do our part that's all we can do. And hope it don't happen to us.

As far as it being a design flaw. This design of tanks have been around for a very long time. It's the tank that failed not the torch. This tank design is not only used for MAP but propane and oxygen as well. And they are used for all sorts of other things. Like camping gear. Hell I have a friend that refills his propane tanks? And he's one of the idiots I was reffering to.

Sory for the confusion.

[rubber duck]

It's something that I don't even think about when using a map torch, I just grab the torch a fire it up. After seeing that injury you can bet I'm going to inspect my torch every time. With oxy acetylene I have always inspected before firing it up but a map torch always seemed more like a wrench then a fire hazard, I guess not.

[rad14701]

I have read this topic, as well as the original on AD, and any references to idiots here were not pointed at any individual... Shit happens... I've had similarly severe second degree burns on my entire right arm and wouldn't wish such an experience on anyone...

[kenfyoozed]

It's something that I don't even think about when using a map torch, I just grab the torch a fire it up. After seeing that injury you can bet I'm going to inspect my torch every time. With oxy acetylene I have always inspected before firing it up but a map torch always seemed more like a wrench then a fire hazard, I guess not.

You and me both. I hope this helps us all stay safe. Inspect your tools.

[LWTCS]

Tell ya what,,,,,I'm pretty freaked out about this.....I go thru bunches of them things.....

Maybe I should pick up a bee tank?

DAmn

[Prairiepiss]

Tell ya what,,,,,I'm pretty freaked out about this.....I go thru bunches of them things.....

Maybe I should pick up a bee tank?

DAmn

On a side note. I did go in to swap out or get a b tank filled the other day. I was told there is a nation wide shortage on acetalene? They had no tanks and no gas? He said they ordered 300 tanks and got 19 in. They were gone in an hour. So good luck getting one.

[Tater Patch Kid]

Thanks for the link. went out fast to inspect my torch and tanks. my tanks are all a newer style from what was shown so i'm in good shape. Also told my plumbing bro and he knew somebody who was burned because of that malfuntion. Stay safe my friends.

[Mr.Spooky]

i wasent callying anybody out , i was just saying that acidents hapen, wether its a persons doings, or a piece of equiptment . we aint got no control if a tank is going to be defective,,,,,,but ill tell you this, if i would of had gloves on, or watching where my fingers and the flame was, my shit wouldent be sore now oosp,,, that was MY fault .
spooky

[frozenthunderbolt]

Tell ya what,,,,,I'm pretty freaked out about this.....I go thru bunches of them things.....

Maybe I should pick up a bee tank?

DAmn

On a side note. I did go in to swap out or get a b tank filled the other day. I was told there is a nation wide shortage on acetalene? They had no tanks and no gas? He said they ordered 300 tanks and got 19 in. They were gone in an hour. So good luck getting one.

The Major US producer of carbide (the acetylene precursor) had a massive explosion and fire at their plant about a month ago. It's going to be short for quite a while. There was a link about it over on survival blog.

[blind drunk]

Terrible accident. I wish you the best recovery. Thank you for the heads up. Take care.

[kenfyoozed]

i wasent callying anybody out , i was just saying that acidents hapen, wether its a persons doings, or a piece of equiptment . we aint got no control if a tank is going to be defective,,,,,,but ill tell you this, if i would of had gloves on, or watching where my fingers and the flame was, my shit wouldent be sore now oosp,,, that was MY fault .
spooky

Hey ever grabbed the pipe after you solder when you thought it was cool enough but wasnt? hard to tell sometimes and my hands feel your pain as well! Keep it safe!

[BFC]

Nothing to do with gas explosions but just as dangerous. Mr spooky wrote about grinding copper. Unless you're using wheels made for cuprous materials this is an extremely dangerous practice as the wheels will load up and fly apart in use. If it hasn't happened yet you've been very lucky.I'm new to distilling but been a fitter& machinist for over 30 years and sen it happen a few times- once fatally. Also better tonot use gloves at a bench grinder .the damn things get caught in the wheel too easily. better to put up with discomfort and keep all your fingers.

[LWTCS]

Happen'd to me BFC.. Bout 20 years ago. 2500 rpms against the leg

Got infected cuz i kept workin in the dirt....can't stop work ya know.

Friggin balls swell'd up good after a few days

Scar is still there

[Usge]

I have that bernz mapp kit. This has me very worried. I also bought a spare cylinder a while back and noticed it was under a different label (ie., at homedepot)...so I wouldn't run out mid-project. Now I'm worried it's been sitting there too long. Its' something I never think about. I always hold mine by the handle (not the bottle) and I always remove the flame tip and recap the bottle and put the cap on the bottom of the tip. When I'm working..I'm all over the place with it..ie., not thinking about angles, etc..just moving to where I need the heat. But, this looks like what they are saying is defective welds at the neck that just suddenly give out that would shoot a 8 or 10 foot fireball out.

As far as I can read, the welds are failing and it appears the original mixture of mapp was causing them to dissolve from the inside out. They didn't have this problem on the propane versions of the same tank. I think they have since been manf the bottle under a different name (worthington) using "MAP" instead of MAPP . As far as I know from reading...nobody has acknowledged the problem nor done anything to address it. To add to this problem, there is a fracture point designed into the flame tip, that's supposed to "break" before putting stress on the valve/neck. When it was tested...it breaks at over 20lbs of force (26lbs to be exact) and the neck on the bottle fractured at 15lbs or less. So, if you are holding the bottle, and knock the tip into something with less than 15lbs of force...it's likely to rupture the tank before it breaks the tip.

But, to be clear...the main issue is the neck seam weld failing on it's own ....with the tip still intact. And in some cases...not because it was bumped or otherwise abused. scary. I hope for speedy recovery for those injured. And it would be good to update this thread if there is any further info...ie., how to check to see if your bottle might be affected, etc. Be safe out there.

[junkyard dawg]

A friend of mine... a beautiful woman blacksmith... lost a thumb to a grinder. Caught the piece she was grinding and THUMP! Damn near all her thumbnail ground off in an instant. Be safe kids!

[Samohon]

A friend of mine... a beautiful woman blacksmith... lost a thumb to a grinder. Caught the piece she was grinding and THUMP! Damn near all her thumbnail ground off in an instant. Be safe kids!

Those 8" polishing wheels for them grinders are worst JD, gotta really keep a hold of the material...

+2, be safe fellow metal smiths...

[Dnderhead]

I dont like to use guards on polishing wheels or wire brushes.if it grabs it can pull your
hand/fingers in,if no guard it will just throw work against the wall

[C. Morrison]

I have used that type torch daily for nearly 30 years. When it first came on the market, it was named "Sure-Fire". I use one every day,in fact I ride with it in my van,for that many years.
I have destroyed several,but usually wear them out every 5 years or so. Here's free safety tip- use your nose- if the thing stinks of Mapp gas when not in use, you have a leak.
Gas leaks can burn or explode, don't do dumb things. I have accidentally dropped the torch from 30 feet in the air,no apparent leak, then junked torch and tank,just to be safe.

[Usge]

It's last few years manf. that the problem has come up...and they are alleging "faulty welds" at the cap..causing the cap to snap off or open with just 10-15lbs of force. This would not impact older manf bottles. The other thing alleged is that the MAPP gas of manf during this time...had a corrosive effect on the already weak weld causing it to be fragile and fail.

This appears to be the case with what happened with a member of AD, who also posted his gruesome burn photos as evidence of just how bad it was. According to what I read...he was just using the torch to sweat a joint and it went up into a fireball. He didn't drop it, or kick it, or use the tip as a wedge, etc. I'm always careful with my mapp bottles. But, the thought of one just "going off" in my hand without any prior warning (which is what this AD member says happened to him)...is a little scary.

[whiskymonster]

had exactly this happen. used to keep my tools in a cupboard under the stairs. one morning i notice the smell of gas. figured i had a gas leak in the house, but it turns out it was the tank had failed overnight. it had been sat in that cupboard, on the shelf for a week or more, so no shock or abuse of any kind.

i just thank god the heating hadnt come on yet......


I dont like to use guards on polishing wheels or wire brushes.if it grabs it can pull your
hand/fingers in,if no guard it will just throw work against the wall.

had this one too. i was in the office in the garage i worked in at the time, when a clamp from an exhaust mounting came through and smashed the window. the guard had been taken off the grinder for exactly this reason, and the piece had caught and been thrown.
narrowly missed me, but showered me with broken glass, and knocked me on my ass. after much cursing, clearing up the blood from where i had landed in the glass, and patching the window (with perspex this time!), i thought no more of it.

was four years later i got a big ol nasty pimple on my forearm, hurt like a bitch. squeezed at it a bit, and when it popped it spat out a gurt big chunk o glass too! perfectly rounded, like a pebble on the beach. pretty sure it didnt go in like that!

goes to show. you dont have to do anything stupid to hurt yourself. there are plenty out there willing to help!