Element sizeing?

[Barney Fife]

2200 watts would be about right, but a controller, or a method to control like mine were I have 2 different elements and can switch them from 220 to 110 volts, allows you to compress the heads better, and also helps at the end of the hearts run to minimize smearing of the tails. Strangely, I'm finding with my bubble plate column and dephleg that MORE power helps me to raise the ABV when nearing the tails, and allows me to collect a good bit more hearts before hitting the tails. With typical stills, we needed to back off on the power and slow the take off rate when nearing the end to minimize smearing. A whole different beast, this style of still....

Does your electrical system allow you to switch to 110 volts? If yes, then a second 2200 watt element would be ideal, giving you 4400w for a quick boilup, then all sorts of power variations in between, down to a low of 550w. All with some basic $1 household switches.

[Prairiepiss]

So roughly 10 gal charge took 1 hour to come to boil with 2200 watts? Do you think a little more. Would be ok? Say 2750 watts? I'm asking because I plan to use 2 220v 5500 watt elements running on 110 volts so the would be approx 1375 watts each and the 2 together 2750 watts. I don't have an extra 220v source at this point. Will this put me in the ballpark?

[mash rookie]

Does your electrical system allow you to switch to 110 volts? If yes, then a second 2200 watt element would be ideal, giving you 4400w for a quick boilup, then all sorts of power variations in between, down to a low of 550w. All with some basic $1 household switches.]

Barney, Can you explain this for me? How would you reduce or vary power with house hold switches?
Thanks MR

[KY1792]

Using two 2200 watt 240vac elements and a few switches can make these powers, plus many more if you wire a convoluted series parallel configuration.
4400 watts with both @ 240vac
2200 watts with one @ 240vac
1100 watts with both @ 120vac
550 watts with one @ 120vac

Forgot the simple switch wiring, this will only work with a 3 wire 240 volt system: DO NOT use the ground of a 2 wire system for the neutral.

Using a 3-way switch, one side of element to 240 hot, second side of element to black screw on 3-way switch, first brass screw to neutral and the other brass screw to second 240 hot.

This will always leave the element hot and should have a second 2 pole switch or disconnect to completely shut off and isolate. For a single 2200 watt element this will give either 2200 or 550 watts. There are many ways to do this with simple switches but would need specifics of system.

[mash rookie]

Using two 2200 watt 240vac elements and a few switches can make these powers, plus many more if you wire a convoluted series parallel configuration.
4400 watts with both @ 240vac
2200 watts with one @ 240vac
1100 watts with both @ 120vac
550 watts with one @ 120vac

Forgot the simple switch wiring, this will only work with a 3 wire 240 volt system: DO NOT use the ground of a 2 wire system for the neutral.

Using a 3-way switch, one side of element to 240 hot, second side of element to black screw on 3-way switch, first brass screw to neutral and the other brass screw to second 240 hot.

This will always leave the element hot and should have a second 2 pole switch or disconnect to completely shut off and isolate. For a single 2200 watt element this will give either 2200 or 550 watts. There are many ways to do this with simple switches but would need specifics of system.

If you run a 2200w 240v element on 120 v doesnt it produce 1100 watts? How did you get the 550 watts? Are you running two elements in series in this case?

[Coyote]

Old Dog you have helped me a lot in the past so here is my nickle worth

I run a 15.5 gallon keg
One side is 220V 4500 watt
the other side is 110V 2000 watt

I have a 50 amp 220 V breaker ( tied in with my mig welder in the adjacent shop building)
and a 30 amp 110 V which runs the rest of the Man Cave

No controllers - just plug them both in and once I reach a boil
or about 170 F at the top of the column I unplug the 220 and finish the
run on 110 V only Start to finish on a single run about 1.5 to 2.25 hours

10 to 11 gallons of wash will come to a boil in about 35 minutes. while the run is in
progress I plug in my 4 burner 220V stove top ( some of you will remember I ruined this one
in the house and got to buy my wonderful bride a new one) and heat things up for my next mash.
The sink and 140 degree water 6 gallon heater ( runs off the same 30 amp 110V that powers everything else)
in the Man Cave make clean up a snap.
Electric is the way of the future

[Barney Fife]

If you run a 2200w 240v element on 120 v doesnt it produce 1100 watts?

Nope. Divide by four, not two, when halving the voltage. Someone else can explain why if you don't believe me. I know just enough about electricity to get by

[Prairiepiss]

It's a long process which I can't remember now. But you have to use Ohm's law E/R=I and Watt's law ExI=P. I figured it up for a 240 volt 5500 watt on 120 volts is 1375 watts. I think the heat got to my brain today and I just can't work it out how to figure it out in my head right now.

[LWTCS]

Ah don't be so hard on yourself PP.
In reality,,,,240 is rarely 240 anywho.
Meter it after the fact to know whats what and let the eggheads. ............Well er ah no offence intended

[rad14701]

It's all based on the resistance of the element...

2200W / 240V = 9.1666A
240V / 9.1666A = 26.2 Ohms Resistance

120V / 26.2 Ohms Resistance = 4.58A
120V * 4.5A = 550W

[Prairiepiss]

Ah don't be so hard on yourself PP.
In reality,,,,240 is rarely 240 anywho.
Meter it after the fact to know whats what and let the eggheads. ............Well er ah no offence intended

I've never seen 120 anywhere I've been. In the states. I guess it should actually be 115 +or- 5. I have 112.42 here right now.

[LWTCS]

Swut ah mean brutha.

Bout 118 here......today.

[rad14701]

I've never seen 120 anywhere I've been. In the states. I guess it should actually be 115 +or- 5. I have 112.42 here right now.

My local power plant always pushes over 120V... I usually get about 123V but called them to another apartment because I was getting between 127V and 131V which is bad for most everything and especially computer equipment... My incandescent light bulbs barely lasted a week...

[olddog]

The main reasons for going electric were comfort and safety. My workshop is fairly small 12''by 8' and the door is on the southern side of the building, and I live directly on the coast, so in winter I get winds directly off the ocean, and the next land mass south of me is antartica so the winds can be bloody cold. With the propane burner, I had to leave the door and window wide open to dissipate the fumes from the burner in such a small area, and stand in the doorway to get clean air. Now with an electric powered boiler I can shut the door and distill in comfort without freezing my balls off. As luck would have it the element seems to be a similar heat output as the propane burner, so no controller is required. As I only have the single circuit in the workshop fitting more than one element for fast boil up was not an option, and I am happy to wait an hour for the boil to be able to do it in comfort.


OD

[Prairiepiss]

HaHa you said south winds are cold. There for a second I forgot you lived in Australia OD. South wind here is the warm one.

[olddog]

HaHa you said south winds are cold. There for a second I forgot you lived in Australia OD

They are great in summer but not in winter


OD

[Prairiepiss]

They are great in summer but not in winter


OD

That's what we say about north winds.

I forget things like that about places south of the equator. And Like the fact your guys toilets flush backwards.

[olddog]

And Like the fact your guys toilets flush backwards.

OD

[Prairiepiss]

What direction does the water swirl when you flush the toilet OD? Clockwise or counter clockwise?

[olddog]

What direction does the water swirl when you flush the toilet OD? Clockwise or counter clockwise?

Counter clockwise.

I think we should get back on topic now.


OD

[Barney Fife]

The main reasons for going electric were comfort and safety.

If your propane burner was noisy, you'll likely also appreciate how quiet your workshop will be, now, during a run. An hour isn't bad for a boilup time; gives you time to get the cooling system tied-in and running, the jars washed and lined up, labels made up, etc.... I kept better track of my boilup time on the last run, and I'm at 30-35 minutes at 4500w, and really, there's no time to waste getting everything else done.

Now, if I had a better cooling system, I'd like to try doing the entire run at 4500w, and controlling the output using only the dephleg. I still think that there's some slight caramelizing happening to a rum wash during a run, if we push the power a lot. There's a certain "something" to every rum I've made when I ran it full-tilt that I can't get otherwise. But with the dephleg, my cooling system can't keep up. I have an old truck radiator rinsed and ready, just too lazy to make up some fittings to tie it into the cooling water system. But I digress...

Enjoy your new 'lectric system; you won't miss the propane, Bud!

[Barney Fife]

Oh, and another benefit is that at only 2200w, you'll likely never get your still to puke, either, even with a malt extract mash(if you ever do those?) .

[HookLine]

Oh, and another benefit is that at only 2200w, you'll likely never get your still to puke, either, even with a malt extract mash(if you ever do those?) .

Not my experience with all barley malt extract and a 2400 w element.

YMMV

OD, did you get an Incoloy coated element? It's a tough stainless. Lasts longer. Pretty common these days, most electrical trade places will have them or can get them.

[mash rookie]

It's all based on the resistance of the element...

2200W / 240V = 9.1666A
240V / 9.1666A = 26.2 Ohms Resistance

120V / 26.2 Ohms Resistance = 4.58A
120V * 4.5A = 550W

Clear answer. Good info. Simple formula. I will right it down and remember it.
Good post.
Thanks rad.

[KY1792]

It's a long process which I can't remember now. But you have to use Ohm's law E/R=I and Watt's law ExI=P. I figured it up for a 240 volt 5500 watt on 120 volts is 1375 watts. I think the heat got to my brain today and I just can't work it out how to figure it out in my head right now.

Though I'm sure Jimmy would be enthralled by being given a namesake in one of Georg's laws he must succeed to his junior.

[olddog]

OD, did you get an Incoloy coated element? It's a tough stainless. Lasts longer. Pretty common these days, most electrical trade places will have them or can get them

I got the one I am using from the local plumbing suppliers, It is branded Solahart/Rheem cost $39.95 so the cost was OK.


OD

[hackware]

how did you guys mount the heating elements...?

would mounting without welding be safe/possible/cheap...?

(got to keep a low profile where i live, and i have no welding equipment...)

william...

btw: OD, you could mount a second element, and run an extension cord just to bring it up to boil...

[Prairiepiss]

Hackware if you do a search there is a thread on using a bolt on mount flange. And plenty of other threads on how to mount them to a keg.

[banter_king]

+ 1 PP i used the no weld method and no leaks yet