Another novice!!

[OPP]

Hello everyone!!
Firstly- Fantastic website. I have been reading and absorbing for the last week. Theres so much to take in!!

I have been looking for a new hobby and this seems like alot of fun with the added bonus of drinkable benfits.

Hopefully I will be able to produce drinkable neutral spirits plus flavoured spirits like bourbon.

My equipment at the moment is a 30L keg that I found in a friends garage yesterday and have some scrap copper lying around outside (only to be used as an external for a condernsor-not in contact with the vapour or water).

Having read about the different stills (theres still alot more reading to be done) I think the 2" Bokakob would keep me satisfied and not have to upgrade for a while.

Couple of questions (I know, i know another novice asking heaps of question :S)

What do people think of making the Boka with a connection at the top of the column so the slant plates and condensor can be removed and a copper coil for a worm attached (via a reducer). This would allow the Boka to be used for refluxing AND as a pot still for flavoured spirits.

Alternatively would the Boka work if the coil for the worm came straight out the top of the condensor ie the condensor isnt running but the vapour goes up the column, around the plates, out the top and through a worm? Would the condensor reduce the flow of vapour ( that is what I imagine woulf happen).

Thanks for reading and answering!!!

Hope to have some photos for you in the next few weeks.

[rad14701]

Welcome to the HD community, OPP...

The Bokakob is a good choice for neutral spirits... However, you ideas on running in pot still mode aren't your best options... First, in order to achieve pot still performance and flavor you need to remove the column packing... Some folks use a removable packed column section and just run the condenser head... Or just build a simple liebig pot still head to swap onto the keg...

There are plenty of variations of the dual slant plate here in the forums as you've most likely discovered... The same goes for pot still heads...

Good luck...

[Bushman]

Welcome to the forum, you ask a good question that many have asked. Look around at the different designs, I built a VM that will not work well for a pot still so built a separate pot still. If you decide to go this route I would seriously look at how to connect the column to the keg. Most prefer a triclamp connection rather than cutting up the keg as it gives you more flexibility! Good luck and keep us posted with pictures along the way.

[OPP]

Welcome to the HD community, OPP...

The Bokakob is a good choice for neutral spirits... However, you ideas on running in pot still mode aren't your best options... First, in order to achieve pot still performance and flavor you need to remove the column packing... Some folks use a removable packed column section and just run the condenser head... Or just build a simple liebig pot still head to swap onto the keg...

There are plenty of variations of the dual slant plate here in the forums as you've most likely discovered... The same goes for pot still heads...

Good luck...

Thanks for the reply. I understand the difference between the two stills and the need to remove packing for the still to keep flavour.

What I was trying to do was make a still that was efficient for both purposes yet using less material than having two seperate stills.

So if I make a 2" Boka and run it in pot still mode with a Liebig condensor will it be as efficient as a worm coming straight off the pot?

[OPP]

Welcome to the forum, you ask a good question that many have asked. Look around at the different designs, I built a VM that will not work well for a pot still so built a separate pot still. If you decide to go this route I would seriously look at how to connect the column to the keg. Most prefer a triclamp connection rather than cutting up the keg as it gives you more flexibility! Good luck and keep us posted with pictures along the way.

I have read about the different designs. Just another beginner keen to get started and trying to reinvent the wheel!!!

A triclamp is my first choice. The only issue is that due to the narrow opening it is very hard to inspect the inside of the keg.

[Prairiepiss]

Welcome aboard fine sir.

That last question is probably one of the most asked questions. What's to inspect? Many will tell you not molest the keg. The 2" triclamp is your best most efficient and cheapest connection you can make. Combined with an easy flange on you column you can't go wrong. As far as cleaning just rinse after the run and your good. The stuff you will be putting in there makes a good cleaner when boiled for the length of a run. If your using propane and run a dirty wash you mite get some burnt on the bottom. Run it low and slow to avoid that. But if it were to happen through a little piece of stainless chain in there and shake it about to clean it up good.

I understand what you are trying for on the swapable column heads. Here is my 2 cents. Yes it can be done. But some things to think about. Depending how long you make your column for your boka. If you have a 4' packed column for your boka. That would be a tall column for a pot still. If you made the 4' in 2 sections with a triclamp connection in the middle you could take one section out unpack it slap a easy pot still head on it and go. Something as simple as a 90 street elbow with an easy flange on the one side and reducers going to a worm on the other. I don't think I would try going through the boka head. But Luke Rad said if you were to put a triclamp connection below the boka head you could just put it on the keg and run it like a pot still. So its you choice.

[bentstick]

Welcome OPP
As far keg inspection i have been using mine since Feb. rinsing it out with hot water when done with a run, I shine a flashlight in it and it is clean as a whistle, No need to worry. What I did is built a simple pot still head and a Boka easy enough to switch between the two with a triclamp, by the way are you from Canada?

[The Baker]

If you have two completely separate stills it can be a big advantage.
Say you start with a pot still; which is a lot cheaper and simpler than a reflux still.
There are lots of things you can do with the pot still, it is better (doesn't remove flavours and is quicker)
than a reflux still for making almost anything except maybe vodka (neutral spirit).
And then when you are getting proficient at using the pot still (I've been years with only a pot still and am just really starting to get the hang of it)
you might think about a reflux still.

Reflux stills take up a lot of time, they distill very slowly.
If you have the two you can operate them both at the same time, and that saves hours and hours.
(Given safety requirements of circuit loading if you are using electric elements for heating).
And you can save a lot more time by using the pot still for a quick first run of your high alcohol neutral spirit/ vodka,
and the reflux still for the slow 'spirit run' (takes a lot less time if a lot of the water has been removed already!).

[OPP]

THanks for all the helpful replies.

I think I will make two seperate stills. Should probably get the basics down first before trying to change tried and true methods

So far I have this :
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/imgp0308o.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I know its only a photo of a keg but its exciting to me!!!!

Three more questions (sorry but I haven't found the answering during my reading so far):

I was thinking about removing the two valves on the outside top of the kep and replacing one with a cork ( home made safety valve) and the other with a thermostat which could regulate the element.

If I am using a pot still what drinks could I make that I could drink soon ( that is part of the reason a Boka would be good - no waiting for the bourbon for 6 months!!!)

Is it possible to clean second hand copper so that it is clean enough to use? The scrap metal yards have 2" copper at 1/4 of the price of wholesale but it is used. I know you can use vinegar but from my reading it was just to brighten it and remove light markings.
*EDIT* Found the answer to this after doing some searching. Think I will give it a shot.

[rad14701]

OPP, throttle it back and continue with your research... You still have much to learn before proceeding... If you haven't stumbled across any one of the multitude of times it's been mentioned that you don't need a thermostat because you don't control the vapor temperature, the ratio of water to alcohol in the boiler does, then you haven't read enough about the theory of distillation... We don't say "Read, Read, Read" to be mean or to piss people off, we say it because it's the answer folks really need... It just doesn't work to keep digging for answers to asking for answers because the answer will only be a small piece of the overall puzzle... One answer just prompts one or more new questions... Your own posts prove that out...

Only reading through the information several times will make things gel in the gray matter... The first time through will yield more questions than answers... The second time through will start helping the pieces fit together but still prompt more questions... The third time through will start the glue the WHY to the WHAT, HOW, and WHEN so you end up with a cohesive understanding... Home Distillation is an prideful art, not simply a bunch of country bumpkins sneaking off into the woods to make some rot gut moonshine to sell for profit...

Slow down and enjoy the ride...

[OPP]

Hi Rad,
I know that I dont need a thermostat to control distillation but I have one lying around and was thinking of putting it in so that the still wouldn't run dry for whatever reason.

The process of distilling is understood but nowhere near any of the masters on here.

I do agree that I should slow down but its so tempting to jump straight in!!!.

[Ayay]

You have a keg and it appears you are going to use electric heat. First steps are to connect something to the keg outlet and fit the heating element. Whatever connects to the keg outlet is best done as already explained (triclamp) you won't regret it.

A pot riser may be needed, a simple column that raises the vapours to a height so as to make room for a leibig or a worm condenser for the downward journey into a collection bottle, and if you have an internal heating element then it's likely your boiler is close to the ground and a riser is needed for extra height. If your boiler is on a stove or on a raised platform and the collection bottle on the ground then a riser is not essential, but a riser will influence the character of the output. I think slightly less flavour and slightly more ABV, and it will take years of experience to really tell the difference.

Your idea of keeping the packed column and having another connection at the top makes sense to me. Remove the Boka condenser with or without the slant plates (all vapours will get through the slant plates) and connect your liebig or worm condenser for pot stillin. Remember, the Boka needs to breathe out the top of an open condenser thus the top of the Boka coil is never sealed off. A pot still condenser has to breathe thru the same outlet hole as the liquid comes out of and it must never be closed off. Keep the packing in the column...it will cause some reflux and raise the ABV slightly and lower the flavour slightly, but again it will take years to notice the difference.

What are you going to feed it with? The brew is the other half!

[rad14701]

Hi Rad,
I know that I dont need a thermostat to control distillation but I have one lying around and was thinking of putting it in so that the still wouldn't run dry for whatever reason.

The process of distilling is understood but nowhere near any of the masters on here.

I do agree that I should slow down but its so tempting to jump straight in!!!.

STOP...!!!

I don't know how you think a boiler could ever boil dry because you should NEVER leave a running still unattended... Sure, a short piss break might be needed but absolutely no distractions that could take your mind away from the task at hand... If that is a possibility then you should shut down the still and fire it back up upon your return... This is a safety issue... It is absolutely incorrect thinking to consider using a thermostat to protect you from your own bad judgment...

If my reply sounds a bit terse, that's how it is meant to sound... We take safety very seriously here and your comments will spark more knee-jerk reactions than agreements... Distillation of spirits is not a hobby to be taken lightly... There is no mechanization that makes the hobby level safer than complete human hands on attention throughout every run... That means you don't drive to the corner store for a pack of smokes... You don't catch a rerun about Moonshine on The History Channel... You don't play ball with the kids... You stay right there next to the still - period...!!! All the added bells and whistles only serve as distractions or as a false sense of security...

Now that I have your attention, this is just another example of why we are so adamant about doing ample research... Toss every preconceived notion about how you think you can improve upon the hobby and focus on doing research until you have a complete understanding of every aspect of the overall process... Heck, you don't get to remove a kidney, even though you know roughly where it is in the human body and have gutted a deer, without years of education first, do you...???

Okay, enough ranting... I've just been seeing a few too many careless ideas posted here in the forums recently... Playing watchdog isn't always fun but is a mandatory part of keeping these forums orderly and the folks who visit them safe...

[mash rookie]

Welcome aboard.
Yes, Take your time getting started. Start simple. It is easier to add and build something new rather than modify something that did not work the first time. It will take time and practice before you really know what works for you.

How are your metal working skills? The advice to go with a tri clamp so still heads are interchangeable is sound advice.

I have a large opening that works well for me but Is really of no advantage. After a run I rinse and dump. I add water and roll the keg around a couple of times. The glass boiling chips act as scrubbers. I rinse again. It would work no different than if I had a small opening. Don’t be afraid of what you can’t see.

Have fun. stay safe.

MR

[OPP]

Thanks all for the thoughtful and well written replies.

I think I may be giving some of you the wrong impression.

I NEVER intended to run my still unattended even with the thermostat installed (which doesn't need to be there anyway).

I'm like a kid who has just got a bike for Christmas and wants to ride on the road!!! Just itching to get out there!!!

More reading has been done and hopefully some progress will be made over this weekend.

Look forward to more constructive critisism soon!!!

To reply to some earlier posts

No-I'm not in Canada, I'm south of the equator.

What am I using for the brew? Hmmmmmm. Not sure yet. Something cheap to begin with.

Hows my metal working skills? Going to find out this weekend. I'm a carpenter by trade so am quite good with my hands.

[rad14701]

More reading has been done and hopefully some progress will be made over this weekend.

Not trying to rain on your parade but the additional reading you have done between posts isn't enough unless you are an internet speed reader... Some novices have spent months researching and I'd say most have spent well over 40 hours before proceeding with making a wash and/or starting construction of their still... All but the ones who constantly come to the forums asking for solutions to the problems they have brought upon themselves...

That whole giddy chomping at the bit feeling is what you need to fight your way past, trust me... You'll know when you're ready and if you still have those feelings, you're not ready... This isn't getting laid on prom night we're talking about here... The party doesn't end at curfew, or sunrise, whether you've scored or not... Right now you've got the home distillers equivalent of blue balls with each gonad screaming "Me First!, Me First!"...

Perhaps some of the other members will share the amount of time they spent researching prior to diving in head first, as well as those who rushed things and ran into trouble...

[banter_king]

I'll step in on that note. I, as a newer member and newer distiller, spent months and months reading, daily, on here before ever even considering building or running anything. I'm not saying that i know everything now, not even close, but the months of reading laid a perfect groundwork for when i finally did get started. It also made it so that i could build and mix up a tasty wash without having to ask questions every step of the way. This was both good for me as it took less time than waiting for responses, and good for the general membership, because they didn't have to read the same novice questions from one more guy.

I understand the excitement. I have been there and still am. listen to these guys and read what is already there. I promise everything you need for now is already on here. As long as i have been reading on here i still have very little to input simply because these people know such and incredible amount. Not to mention, these guys have already made all of the mistakes they are trying to prevent you from making. They only have you best interests and SAFETY in mind. You will get there but this is not sprint. Good luck and good reading.

[Bearcat]

Perhaps some of the other members will share the amount of time they spent researching prior to diving in head first, as well as those who rushed things and ran into trouble...

I have been on here for months reading everyday.. got my Keg adapted and welded-MK5500 ready to be pluged in.. got my pot still made... have my ingredients sitting there (corn, sweetfeed, molasses), fermenters empty, read and re-read my compleat distiller books, reading forum's threads for new distillers, sticky's often, Tried and true recipe threads, reached out to more experienced members via IM ...still not comofortable that I can do this safely. I am waiting for it to all click. Getting closer though. So I have the ability.. not the knowledge because I still find things everyday that I would run into during the fermentation/runs-cuts/aging that I haven't thought of yet. I was, awhile ago, like you "all in" and guns blazin to make some spirits. From what I know now is that I wasn't ready and I am glad members said the same thing to me as they are saying to you. Now I am more "it will happen when it is time better to be prepared and educated and not kill myself or anybody else". Hope you take the time to continue exploring, reading, and asking questions the product will benefit and you will be safer...a win -win.

[Coyote]

OPP

I have to agree with Rad ( wow was that my outside voice) If you would like to take a suggestion
about how much time I personally think you should spend reading the parent site and these forums
before you even consider charging a still. . . about 5 times as long as you spent working up the nerve
to ask your wife to marry you.

Read read READ, then before you ask a question - yep go back and read some more, search the forums for the answer.
Trust me every answer is here. I still years later discover that tid bit of information that I somehow
overlooked the first 12 times I read the same page.

SAFETY First and always Don't tell,sell or yell This is a quite hobby share among VERY good friends
and the folks here

Have fun

Coyote

[OPP]

Alright, time for me to sit on my hands for a while.
Will be back in a few weeks when I have read some more!!!!
No doubt I will come across answers to all my questions.....