Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

wombat · Post by **wombat** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:43 pm

Just putting the swisse multi vitamin in the still- it stopped at SG 1.006 started at sg of 1.054
Will update the result

wombat

The Baker · Post by **The Baker** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:53 am

wombat wrote:fattmatt1972

Thanks for those contacts in Melbourne.
I am in Northern Victoria.

wombat

Me too.
About twenty miles before you get to the big river.

Jersey Shine · Post by **Jersey Shine** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:56 pm

H all. I'm new to the hobby. I've done a few rum runs already and a quick All Bran that didnt last the night (good stuff!). I figured I would try a neutral, and it seems like wineo's was the way to go. I read the entire thread of this, but am still having a problem with this wash. I thought I followed the recipe exactly, bubbled away great for the first night, but died the second night. I figured the temp was too low, so I put the ferment bucket next to a heater, no go. Figuring I lowered the PH too much (used a heaping tsp of citric acid), i added more gypsum, still no dice. I popped the lid off the fermenting bucket, and while there are no bubbles coming out of my ghetto airlock (tube into a bottle of water), the wash was still fizzing. I'm thinking that snce there is not alot of CO2 pressure coming off the wash, it cant push the water out of the airlock tube. Should I add anythng to help get this going stronger again, or just be patient and let it go for another week?

Thanks for any advice y'all can give me.

Post by **Tater** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:05 pm

If its fizzing it should be ok

Post by **rad14701** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:54 am

Jersey Shine, had the fermentation completely stopped when you first became alarmed or had it merely slowed...??? If you saw signs of CO2 the wash had most likely only slowed or there was a sealing problem... Although I have never tried this particular recipe I have read that it can be somewhat temperamental at times... Keep us posted on your progress...

cornbred · Post by **cornbred** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:01 am

I did three 6 gallon batches of WSW. I ran out of distillers yeast after the second bucket. So I used 2 paks of EC-1118 on the third bucket. It never got going. Can anyone tell me why? The first two are chugging but the last one nothing.

Post by **WalkingWolf** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:05 am

Jersey Shine wrote: . . . Figuring I lowered the PH too much (used a heaping tsp of citric acid), . . .

Do you have a way to check your pH? Low pH (and even lower pH after citric acid) will definitely prolong a ferment. If you find your pH down in the ~3ish (or lower) range then a tablespoon or two of calcium carbonate will get it back up in the 5-6ish range.

I agree with the probability of a seal problem. Not a problem unless you let it be a problem. Let it work it's magic and run when done. Do you have a hydrometer to monitor the progress of the ferment? (would give us an idea on where it's at)

good luck -- it'll get there

Post by **rad14701** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:06 am

cornbred wrote:I did three 6 gallon batches of WSW. I ran out of distillers yeast after the second bucket. So I used 2 paks of EC-1118 on the third bucket. It never got going. Can anyone tell me why? The first two are chugging but the last one nothing.

All else remaining equal I'd guess that the EC1118 didn't like something in the mix or was bad... Did you try tossing some bakers yeast in to see what happens...???

kenfyoozed · Post by **kenfyoozed** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:41 am

cornbred wrote:I did three 6 gallon batches of WSW. I ran out of distillers yeast after the second bucket. So I used 2 paks of EC-1118 on the third bucket. It never got going. Can anyone tell me why? The first two are chugging but the last one nothing.

How long has this been? I have found that ec118 is a very slow starting and slow running yeast when compared to say bread yeast.

Slowninja · Post by **Slowninja** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:52 pm

Just got my wash started tonight. I've got the yeast sitting on top of the water at the moment, bout to stir it in. starting SG at 1.066 temp corrected. Using distillers yeast. We'll see how it goes

cornbred · Post by **cornbred** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:41 pm

rad14701 wrote:
cornbred wrote:I did three 6 gallon batches of WSW. I ran out of distillers yeast after the second bucket. So I used 2 paks of EC-1118 on the third bucket. It never got going. Can anyone tell me why? The first two are chugging but the last one nothing.
All else remaining equal I'd guess that the EC1118 didn't like something in the mix or was bad... Did you try tossing some bakers yeast in to see what happens...???

I added some bakers yeast to get it rolling.

cornbred · Post by **cornbred** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:51 pm

WalkingWolf wrote:
Jersey Shine wrote: . . . Figuring I lowered the PH too much (used a heaping tsp of citric acid), . . .
Do you have a way to check your pH? Low pH (and even lower pH after citric acid) will definitely prolong a ferment. If you find your pH down in the ~3ish (or lower) range then a tablespoon or two of calcium carbonate will get it back up in the 5-6ish range.

I agree with the probability of a seal problem. Not a problem unless you let it be a problem. Let it work it's magic and run when done. Do you have a hydrometer to monitor the progress of the ferment? (would give us an idea on where it's at)

good luck -- it'll get there

I didn't check the PH this time. I will check it in the morning out of curiosity. Maybe I just wasnt patient enough. Think I am just used to the time that 1/2 cup of distillers yeast starts working. I'm sure my PH was pretty low though cause I did a 55 gallon wash a couple weeks ago and a small amount of citric acid sent the PH very low. Actually only added 2 tsp. to get a 55 gallon wash to 5.
Went ahead and just added some bakers yeast and it was ticking away in a couple hours. The Wineo wash is awesome. I really liked the neutral I have gotten from this wash. Very easy and inexpensive too.

Jersey Shine · Post by **Jersey Shine** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:36 pm

Thanks everyone for getting back to me. It looks like thats what I get for being too fussy with my wash and checking too much - the old lady pointed out that the lid wasnt snapped on all the way! It was still fizzing away, kinda like soda after its poured. I'll check the sg in a day or so and hopefully all is well. Again, thanks for getting back to me!

WalkingWolf - SG was 1.065 when started. I just checked and it was down to 1.004. Figured I'd let it sit in the fermentor for a few more days, rack for a few, then run this weekend and see whats what.

Post by **BrewVegas** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:22 pm

This is my first wash. I forgot to check the SG before adding the yeast. It was 1.060 with 8 lbs of white sugar. I wasn't sure how much/if the yeast would effect the reading so I added an extra lb of sugar and bumped it up to 1.065. Do you figure the distillers yeast made a difference?

To balance the pH I added this which I use in my all grain mash:

...and hit it with some of this:

...and put it in that:

...and temp controlled it with this:

I also used some DAP and yeast nutrient. This should be ready to go by the time Santa brings my new 13 gallon Mile Hi 30" reflux/pot tower. I am eagerly awaiting so I can start my new winter hobby...electric and indoors.

Post by **rad14701** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:23 am

BrewVegas wrote:This is my first wash. I forgot to check the SG before adding the yeast. It was 1.060 with 8 lbs of white sugar. I wasn't sure how much/if the yeast would effect the reading so I added an extra lb of sugar and bumped it up to 1.065. Do you figure the distillers yeast made a difference?

I also used some DAP and yeast nutrient. This should be ready to go by the time Santa brings my new 13 gallon Mile Hi 30" reflux/pot tower. I am eagerly awaiting so I can start my new winter hobby...electric and indoors.

Not really sure why you thought you needed DAP and yeast nutrient considering that yeast already has everything in it that it needs... It's turbo yeast after all...

Typically not used for Beer or Wine. This is the yeast you need to make fuel. This one pound pack is sufficient to ferment 500 gallons up to 22% alcohol before it starts slowing down.

Don't be surprised if your results aren't as stellar as you might be expecting...

Post by **BrewVegas** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:50 am

wineo wrote: 1/4 cup of distillers yeast,or 1/2 cup of bakers yeast{sprinkled on top}

I thought I used the correct distillers yeast from the recipe. Is that not right? I thought turbo yeast was something else.

This is why I added the yeast nutrient:

Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby rad14701 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:23 pm
DAP alone is does not provide enough nutrients for a plain sugar wash, but it is a good addition to other nutrients... Think about it, adding DAP to a grape wine recipe only augments the nutrients already present in the grapes themselves... DAP doesn't provide a complete, well balanced, diet for the yeast colony...

Post by **rad14701** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:42 pm

BrewVegas wrote:
wineo wrote: 1/4 cup of distillers yeast,or 1/2 cup of bakers yeast{sprinkled on top}
I thought I used the correct distillers yeast from the recipe. Is that not right? I thought turbo yeast was something else.

This is why I added the yeast nutrient:
Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby rad14701 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:23 pm
DAP alone is does not provide enough nutrients for a plain sugar wash, but it is a good addition to other nutrients... Think about it, adding DAP to a grape wine recipe only augments the nutrients already present in the grapes themselves... DAP doesn't provide a complete, well balanced, diet for the yeast colony...

The distillers yeast that Wineo is referring to is deactivated yeast previously used in distilling that has been repurposed and sold for nutritional value in health food stores... At least that's the way I have always interpreted it...

Post by **BrewVegas** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:02 pm

Ok...so I actually used a turbo yeast, that stinks. I did see a brick of bakers yeast at Costco. Maybe I'll pick it up with another bag of sugar and ferment to see the difference.

cornbred · Post by **cornbred** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:22 pm

Again in case you guys missed my other post. If I was gonna do a 50 gallon batch, do I scale up the DAP, Gypsum, and Citric Acid? 8 tsp. of citric acid seems like a lot from my other large batch experience. I know I can watch that as far as PH. Just don't know about the DAP and gypsum. Mainly the gypsum as I think about it.

Slowninja · Post by **Slowninja** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:40 pm

Running my WPOSW on a second run (first run was a fast stripping run, this is a slower stripping run.. it makes sense in my head)

Pulled off the fores and some heads in a collection jar, pulled out 80%abv from my junky pot still.

Very pleased, going to run this one more time in a few days as a spirit run. If I pull over 85% i could die happy.

britincali · Post by **britincali** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:13 pm

Ok Ill admit I tried one wash of WPOSW and then tried birdwatchers, after the first tomato paste run I was hooked and have been using birdwatchers recipe ever since. Well after having a read on here last night I dug out my DAP, Gypsum and epson and went at it.

I dumped the yeast not 5 mins before shooting this vid, its taken off like a bleadin ROCKET!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWAdMQVCHv4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Slowninja · Post by **Slowninja** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:19 pm

Only pulled 82% on my third run. Oh well.

Spirit run tomorrow night.

britincali · Post by **britincali** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:04 pm

A few hours in and its trooping!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUgalrB9 ... AAAAAAAAAA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Post by **Braz** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:56 am

cornbred wrote:Again in case you guys missed my other post. If I was gonna do a 50 gallon batch, do I scale up the DAP, Gypsum, and Citric Acid? 8 tsp. of citric acid seems like a lot from my other large batch experience. I know I can watch that as far as PH. Just don't know about the DAP and gypsum. Mainly the gypsum as I think about it.

I haven't done a WPOSW in a long time but I recall needing to mess around with nutrients to to get consistent and reasonably quick ferments.

My opinion: Unless you have really soft water you shouldn't need a lot of gypsum. As to the citric acid, I'd go by your Ph readings and just add what in needed to get it to a Ph of 5 or a little less. (I have to use a lot of citric acid in my washes because my water Ph is above 8. Using a lot does not seem to cause any problems.) Nutrients? DAP is a nutrient but it is not a balanced meal. Adding a can of tomato paste and a couple crushed vitamin B tabs won't hurt. Or, if you can get it easily, something like Fermaid K nutrient has everything you need.

frozenthunderbolt · Post by **frozenthunderbolt** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:31 pm

Braz wrote:
I haven't done a WPOSW in a long time but I recall needing to mess around with nutrients to to get consistent and reasonably quick ferments.

1+ Birdwatchers is so much more bullet proof in this respect

cornbred · Post by **cornbred** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:06 am

Braz wrote:
cornbred wrote:Again in case you guys missed my other post. If I was gonna do a 50 gallon batch, do I scale up the DAP, Gypsum, and Citric Acid? 8 tsp. of citric acid seems like a lot from my other large batch experience. I know I can watch that as far as PH. Just don't know about the DAP and gypsum. Mainly the gypsum as I think about it.
I haven't done a WPOSW in a long time but I recall needing to mess around with nutrients to to get consistent and reasonably quick ferments.

My opinion: Unless you have really soft water you shouldn't need a lot of gypsum. As to the citric acid, I'd go by your Ph readings and just add what in needed to get it to a Ph of 5 or a little less. (I have to use a lot of citric acid in my washes because my water Ph is above 8. Using a lot does not seem to cause any problems.) Nutrients? DAP is a nutrient but it is not a balanced meal. Adding a can of tomato paste and a couple crushed vitamin B tabs won't hurt. Or, if you can get it easily, something like Fermaid K nutrient has everything you need.

Thanks for the info Braz. I am trying to avoid a big, stuck fermentation. My 6 gallon washes go great when I go exactly by the recipe. Just didn't know about scaling it up.

TonyHibbett · Post by **TonyHibbett** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:13 am

I am new to all this, so forgive my ignorance. I have a new 5 litre barrel which, as a final conditioning, needs to have something fermented in it, before using it for storage/maturing. It is too small for wine, but may be suitable for the apple brandy which I am currently producing in a home made still, constructed from an aluminium pressure cooker and copper pipe, with suitable fittings. My neighbour introduced me to the system, but his output is unrefined, to say the least!
My plan is to use your recipe to produce a litre of neutral ethanol to top up, diluted, my large barrel. I have already deduced that 6 US gallons equates to 5 UK gallons, but I only want 1 gallon of wash.This would reqire somewhat less than a kilo of sugar. I believe that the gypsum is required to harden the water, but what comes out of my tap is already alkaline, (pH 7.2) and famously good for making beer, so the gypsum may not be needed. The wine yeast I usually use already contains nutrient and is typically used at 1 rounded teaspoonful per gallon. As for the epsom salts, it is unclear to me what this is for. I have bought some anyway.
A certain amount of acid helps, enables even, fermentation. Clearly your recipe works, but citric acid is not the ideal, and I would suggest replacing this with either tartaric or malic acid.
Finally, someone on this thread mentioned red potatoes. Would this not introduce potential starch haze, flavour and increased methanol content?

Slowninja · Post by **Slowninja** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:51 am

Aluminum is a big no-no. Reconsider your still construction before continuing.

Post by **rad14701** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:04 am

TonyHibbett, part of this hobby is knowing the WHY behind the WHAT and HOW... You owe it to yourself to do enough research to know as much as possible... The epsom salt adds magnesium that the yeast requires to stay healthy in an alcohol laden environment... The gypsum acts as a pH buffer in conjunction with the citric acid... It sounds like they would cancel each other out but when combined they make a buffer to maintain a steadier pH throughout the fermentation process... The potatoes add mouth feel... But don't just settle for my information, continue to do research...

Post by **rgarry** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:40 pm

I did a triple batch to get ready for my new still (thanks to Hillybillystills). I had been using the bakers yeast but switched to ec 1118. After 11 days the Specific gravity has dropped to 1.04-1.05 depending on batch. Its still bubbling but pretty slow (bubbles about every 30 seconds). I read that it might take longer with this yeast. I'm patient but want to make sure I should be patient and not be doing something. Thanks