3 inch valve plate design

[emptyglass]

For what its worth, you should be able to maintain your 180proof until the end of the run.

[Sungy]

Thanks emptyglass
I ran180 proof for about 3/4 of the run. Then the top plate trap blew out and the vapor bypassed the plate liquid and the plate flooded because all that vapor condensed in the dephleg. I had to slow the take off to get proof up after lowering the power and increased reflux. It only recovered to 160 till end of run.

[MuleKicker]

What kinda temp drop do you have accross that radiator? Im just wondering if it has enough cooling capacity to go with a smaller resevoir. Ive been thinking about running a closed system myself. I have a well, and water is not an issue. But it wouldnt hurt. And a small radiator is not hard for me to come by. NFR. Nice Fuggin Rig

[Sungy]

What kinda temp drop do you have across that radiator? Im just wondering if it has enough cooling capacity to go with a smaller resevoir. Ive been thinking about running a closed system myself. I have a well, and water is not an issue. But it wouldnt hurt. And a small radiator is not hard for me to come by. NFR. Nice Fuggin Rig

The condenser is 9" x 9" x 3" and had 30 passes. I split it in to 14 passes for the dephleg as well as 16 passes for the combined product condenser and bypass line. The Depheg water was about 2-3' C lower than the vapor being taken off for product collection (78.3'C). It was returned to the 45 gallon drum at around 1 - 2'C above the barrel temp(started at 22'C ended around 27'C). The same can be said for the combined product condenser and bypass line. The room air was around 22'C at the start and 28'C near the end(small room 10' x 8'). Starting amperage after warm up was 14 and 17 at end of run.

For the size I was very impressed. The coil is from a commercial freezer. It was the condenser coil. The fan was from a different unit and bastardized together. Not sure what rig your running but the 45 gallon drum is lost of capacity. I dont know enough about what Im doing yet to advise if it could be reduced in size. But Im sure with a bigger coil the water could be reduced by half.

[LWTCS]

Mule you prolly got 400-500 six-oh power plants layin round as paper weights just swipe one of them radiators....Can toss out the deaga bottle though.....they get brittle and crack apart after 4-5 hours

[Sungy]

Mule you prolly got 400-500 six-oh power plants layin round as paper weights just swipe one of them radiators....Can toss out the deaga bottle though.....they get brittle and crack apart after 4-5 hours

LWTCS

What is a deaga bottle? This is a term im not familiar with. Could you please explain.

[LWTCS]

Day-gah bottle is the stupid name Ford give to their recovery resevior.
I used to be a life time Ford customer. Never again.

[emptyglass]

Please excuse my ramblings here, I don't know as much about thermo dynamics as some here, but, I thought a "radiator", as in a device to dissipate heat, was always more efficient if manifolded, like the multiple cores in a traditional car radiator.

A device to introduce heat was better designed as a continous run, such as an a/c evaporator. This is designed to boil the refrigerant gas, therefore better as a continous run.

Maybe a continous pipe from the outlet to the inlet of a car engine would work. If it was as efficient, or effecive as a multi core style, maybe more car makers would go that way. That said, I don't know if you made a pipe as long as you could to fit in the equvilent space of a radiator, weather it would be as efficient. Obvously, car makers are not going to use that much copper.

As I said, just ramblings, because at the end of the day, a bucket works for what we are doing. I just mention it as I am running an old 4 cylinder nissan radiator on a 50 litre tank. I'm splitting the water into 80 cores for one pass. Comes out pretty cool, tank warms up and stays there for the run, even at 34C ambient temp.

Please don't get offended Sungy, just dropping it in there. I don't think it matter how a guy does it, as long as it gets done

ETA; I own a Ford with one of those Gay-day bottles. I just wish it would stay full!

[Sungy]

The key to it all comes down to flow rates and temperature differential between mediums. The more circuits the coil has the slower the flow rate will be. There for the fluid will be in the coil longer. Your radiator has 80 circuits. Suppose it was flowing 40 liters a minute and you have 80 circuits 12 inches long. This will give you a flow rate of 1/2 liter per Minuit per 12 inch circuit. Now we add the fact that the car is driving at 60 km hr. Thats a lot of air going past the coil at a consistent temperature. So a single pass works well.

Now an A/C condenser is a single pass. Mine is split into 2 circuits. This allows for the control valve to only send what I need to the dephleg (very small amount of water coming out just a few 'C below product temperature). That water is sent to the upper circuit of the condenser( 12 passes each 10 inches with the return bend that's 120 inches or ten feet). Now for the tricky bit. The flow rate varies depending if I am in full reflux or collection mode. suppose we are in product take off mode. That is 1 liter approx. from the dephleg into the top circuit changing from 76'C to 23'C per minute. In full reflux mode it is 25 liters approx. from the dephleg into the top circuit changing from 28'C to 23'C per minute. The air across the coil has a slower face velocity than your car.

Like you said "I don't think it matter how a guy does it, as long as it gets done"

The biggest test is to see how close to ambient temperature you can get your cooling water to be. This is referred to as approach temp. Take your water temp and subtract your air temp. The result will tell you if you are rejecting enough heat. Low numbers (1 or 2) are good heat transfer rates, high numbers mean you need a bigger coil. This works for all condensers. Dephelg condenser would be vapor temp minus cooling water out ( full reflux the numbers will be high and indicates excess flow) for product take off the numbers will be close say 2-4 "C. Leibig condensers compare product out temp minus cooling water out (not sure what the spread is for these yet) .

Sorry to ramble on folks. Just trying to help.

[Sungy]

So here are the modifications to my still.
Fist is the cooler fan circuited and plumed in.

Here is a shot of the return bends I am usin for traps

I made a funnel from a 3 inch to 1.5 inch reducing coupling and a 1.5 to 0.5 inch reducer.

Here is the new version of my spring loaded paddles for stirring my washes. They slide right into the hole for the air lock. The ring stops the paddles scoring the bucket lid hole.

I also added a thermo port to my column just because it looks so cool.

I re cleaned every thing and she's ready for her next run. Got another Birdwatchers fermenting and a bag of sweet feed is going to be next.

[LWTCS]

Thats clever,,,but why do you feel the need to stir?

[Sungy]

Birdwatchers recipe requires daily stirring. Just doing as directed.

I take it you dont have to stir other recipes?

Here is the sensor shield ( condenser is upside down). This cover should stop the condensate from distorting the actual vapor temp.

Here is the fermentor box ( my basement can be quite cool )

Im using a desk lamp for heat 40 watt bulb. Some Birdwatchers in the buckets on day three at 1.032 SG. Started at 1.092 SG

[LWTCS]

Birdwatchers recipe requires daily stirring. Just doing as directed.

I take it you dont have to stir other recipes?

OIC,
I never stir once I lock it down. I ferment with 30 liter fermenters and do leave head space. So 20-25 liter ferments would be typical for me.
......So when the ferment is coming to completion I do give my bucket a little swirly to release gas so that any suspended solids can drop.

[Sungy]

Hi all.
Spent last night running a batch of Birdwatchers. For those following the build the U bend traps performed very well. For a three inch column the performance is great ( on a larger size column I would increase the down comer size). Most 4 inch columns have a sweet spot at around 18 amps from what I have read. This 3 inch columns sweet spot is 14 amps at 240 volts. This is what I hoped for. Smaller column diameter and less power input to run it makes the basic design concept more economical to build and operate ( if you don't go control crazy like I did. Totally not required but cool lookin ).

On a side note. The sensor shield for the lower dephleg temp worked well. But with the sensors in wells I still have a 3'C error caused by thermal lag. Heat sink paste will help reduce the error but the only way to truly get accurate readings it to have the sensor in direct contact with the medium being measured.

Now for the run. I spent much more time finding the column equilibrium at the beginning of the run. Once stable for 30 mins. I reduced the reflux valve to 39% and away we go. 188 proof for the first two jars then 185 proof for the rest for the run until the tails. Then at 80 proof no reflux and crank the heat to collect the deep tails to be added back into the next run. Total run time was 5.5 hours to run 12 gallons and collect 8.5 liters.
Well that's it for now. Gonna make up a batch of sweetfeed this afternoon.

Thanks to all the people who have made this build possible. If it were not for this forum this build would not be. All the builds I read about here, pushed me to take it to the next level.
Thanks guys you ROCK!

[bentstick]

Well done again! Sungy looks that you have hit the ground running again. And the fun continues.

[plumber77]

well done!
Very impressive reading!

[Sungy]

OK so after a number of sweet feed run I'm back to a few Birdwatchers.

For your Viewing pleasure I have a new Video. Hope you like it as it was a great run. Pulled out 5 liters or so ( at 190 - 188 proof @ 22 - 28'C) currently airing out.

http://youtu.be/Y5dHX4aIj1I

I learned a lot from this build and will be applying that to my next project. Currently savaging parts.......for a four inch.....something er other.........twins maybe

[bentstick]

Very nice job, looks like it runs very good!

[LWTCS]

Likker Geek

[mash rookie]

Hi Sungy,

I just had a look at your thread. Good job on a nice build. Tech guys usually get their butts kicked around here by the old school fellas.

How is your control system working? Eventually someone is going to build and program an intuitive control system. Once boiler volume is plugged in it will know wash ABV by initial boil temp and be able to control the whole run. Heck, rotating jars for cuts too.

My compliments on your coppersmith skills. As you learned on your first parrot, sometimes simpler is better. I only have one suggestion. The thermo well is not necessary and slows readings. I use a simple cork on my builds. I remove and reinstall my temp probe with each run and it never leaks. That keeps the probe in direct contact with vapor. Simple and effective. I did have to replace a cork once after many runs.

Keep up the good work and keep the fancy stuff coming.
MR

[Bushman]

Very nice, glad to see you are writing down all the data, bet Rad or someone could figure out a way to get a print out and store the data as your computer gives the read-out! Maybe I am getting to technical but would really be cool

[Sungy]

Hi Sungy,

I just had a look at your thread. Good job on a nice build. Tech guys usually get their butts kicked around here by the old school fellas.

How is your control system working? Eventually someone is going to build and program an intuitive control system. Once boiler volume is plugged in it will know wash ABV by initial boil temp and be able to control the whole run. Heck, rotating jars for cuts too.

My compliments on your coppersmith skills. As you learned on your first parrot, sometimes simpler is better. I only have one suggestion. The thermo well is not necessary and slows readings. I use a simple cork on my builds. I remove and reinstall my temp probe with each run and it never leaks. That keeps the probe in direct contact with vapor. Simple and effective. I did have to replace a cork once after many runs.

Keep up the good work and keep the fancy stuff coming.
MR

I just monitor with the computer stuff........Totally un needed, but for my need to understand how this works the more data the better. This rig will be my test rig. The new ideas that keep me awake at night will come to life threw this rig. I have lots of concepts to which I will test as time goes by with the ultimate build in mind. More study and testing is going to be required. To bad, cause I love building so much that new ideas will have to be tested....

besides it keeps me busy while the wife is at work..

cant get in trouble stillin..........can you?

[rad14701]

Very nice, glad to see you are writing down all the data, bet Rad or someone could figure out a way to get a print out and store the data as your computer gives the read-out! Maybe I am getting to technical but would really be cool

Any data that can be acquired and displayed by a computer should also be capable of being logged into a flat file or database table for either real time or future statistical extrapolation...

[emptyglass]

Alright. 2 things...
I dont like that funny looking brown glass bottle with, of all things, pepsi in it (at least thats what it said on the outside!)
You should sit the lids on your collection jars- stops the critters trying to drink your wares. The critters mostly go for the hearts.

Seriosly good job bloke. I couldnt do the things with PLC contol like you have, but I'm tipping in a while, you'll only need it to run the machine.
Toss the first bit (into the BBQ lighter can), collect stuff that smells/tastes good and you're close to finnish when the glasses fog up. Parrot tells all.

I liked mash rookies idea of the cork for the thermo probe, but after mucking around with sheilds that I couldnt get to stay still, I decided to run without them. It seemed to make little difference to the actual reading, but further from that, the reading was only so helpful. I still use cork, with the thermo probe pushed through it.
I picked up a new thermo gun with with a laser pointer for $30. This has been more helpful in letting me know how much the temps don't matter. Well' not that the don't matter, they just happen.

But in the end, its how it tastes

[Sungy]

Alright. 2 things...
I dont like that funny looking brown glass bottle with, of all things, pepsi in it (at least thats what it said on the outside!)
You should sit the lids on your collection jars- stops the critters trying to drink your wares. The critters mostly go for the hearts.

I tend to get caught up in what I am doing when the still is running, that is why the incognito beverage. If it gets warm I chuck it and dont feel bad about it.
I usually cover the jars with a bath towel but removed it for the video.

Seriosly good job bloke. I couldnt do the things with PLC contol like you have, but I'm tipping in a while, you'll only need it to run the machine.

The PLC was just an easy way to monitor the temps. (gives me something to watch while stillin.) Now that I have made 7 runs with this lady, I think I have it figured but the temps do help.

Toss the first bit (into the BBQ lighter can), collect stuff that smells/tastes good and you're close to finnish when the glasses fog up. Parrot tells all.

Aint that the truth.

I liked mash rookies idea of the cork for the thermo probe, but after mucking around with sheilds that I couldnt get to stay still, I decided to run without them. It seemed to make little difference to the actual reading, but further from that, the reading was only so helpful. I still use cork, with the thermo probe pushed through it.
I picked up a new thermo gun with with a laser pointer for $30. This has been more helpful in letting me know how much the temps don't matter. Well' not that the don't matter, they just happen.

But in the end, its how it tastes

I have picked up 3 dial thermometers. They are 1/4" stainless sensor tube with a 1/2" MIP thread also stainless. Just like the one in the video. My next build will be all manual control with dial thermo gauges. All will be in direct contact with medium being measured.
As for the infra red thermometers you will find they read differently if it is a painted or a smooth, reflective surface. I have a few of them and all have issues with reflective material like copper pipe. For a more accurate reading try wrapping your copper pipe with black electrical tape.

[Sgt Stedenko]

Sungy,
US pennies from 1983 and 1984 are 97.5% zinc and 2.5% copper.
Some of the 82's are 97.5% zinc too. Depends on the mint location.
Only pre 1982's are 95% copper.

95% copper pennies weigh 3.11 grams
97.5% zinc pennies weigh 2.5 grams

Here's hoping you didn't get any zinc pennies in your valves.