Is it safe to buy from Mile High?

electrictibet · Post by **electrictibet** » Mon May 07, 2012 6:52 pm

I want to buy this: http://www.milehidistilling.com/product ... g-kit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

i want to get this connector from them to go from a 2 inch column to a keg. I read on home distiller that you can get raided at any moment for buying a still online because you are giving up your shipping address. I just am getting this, am I forfeiting my right to not be searched? its not a still, just a part. can i get in trouble?

Anyone know about this?

Post by **Husker** » Mon May 07, 2012 7:05 pm

No one on HD is going to be able to give you 100% solid legal advise. So the advise you get, you will have to think about yourself, and take it for what it's worth.

I imagine mile hi has sold 100's if not 1000's of hobby stills. I certainly doubt that the people who bought them have been 'raided'. Have there been people busted for illegal distillation, and have had a mile hi still? Almost certainly. However, I do not think there is any wide spread 'swoop in' based solely on a still sale, from some on-line dealer.

However, being paranoid, AND overcautious is NOT a bad thing to have, when you are starting into a less than legal hobby, like this one is.

I would bet that 90% of the people who get busted, get busted because they either sold end product, or supplied someone underage. Probably 90% of the rest that get in trouble, are result of 1. pissed off ex (wife, gf, etc). 2. nosy neighbor, or neighbor dispute. 3. they flapped their yap too much about what they were doing. 4. They are busted for something else, and the still/shine is tossed in as a 'extra' charge.

So there are only a few left over (1% in my totally made up statistics), who get into trouble distilling, and who avoided all of the obvious pitfalls (selling, running a crack house, pissing off the ex, etc).

It could be, in your mind, that if you want to stay as covert as possible, that you would not order any 'finished' still on line, OR would find someone else to order it for you. Someone you fully trust, who would NOT be stilling themselves.

Most of us here have made our own (for many reasons). However, there are also many who have purchased from MH, or from other online still sales companies. I have no heard of anyone busted for a still purchase, but again, that does not mean there will not be a FIRST.

H.

dakotasnake · Post by **dakotasnake** » Tue May 08, 2012 2:18 am

another option would be to order thru a local wine/beer making supply house, than pay cash for it. it would likely cost a few bucks more but if it makes ya feel better about it.........

Ayay · Post by **Ayay** » Tue May 08, 2012 3:43 am

Mile-high don't appear as rip-off artists as many other vendors do. Do a search here and see for yourself.

You can do better if your time is worth more than money. That's another topic...is your time worth the money?

Post by **Bayou-Ruler** » Tue May 08, 2012 4:15 am

electrictibet wrote:I want to buy this: http://www.milehidistilling.com/product ... g-kit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

i want to get this connector from them to go from a 2 inch column to a keg. I read on home distiller that you can get raided at any moment for buying a still online because you are giving up your shipping address. I just am getting this, am I forfeiting my right to not be searched? its not a still, just a part. can i get in trouble?

Anyone know about this?

If you are that paranoid maybe you should choose a different hobby....

Post by **moonshine guy** » Tue May 08, 2012 5:02 am

I have order some things from MH, but not a still and he was fast on shipping out my order! And from what I have read about these people selling stills is that ATF can come in at any time and get the address of anyone they have sold a complete still and yeast together on one order! If you must buy online, buy your column from one guy, your boiler from another guy! All these well known sellers carry the same stuff when it comes to boilers! And do yourself a favor, stay away from those turbo yeast. Stick to baker's yeast! Those turbo yeast are only good for fuel for your car!

Buteo · Post by **Buteo** » Tue May 08, 2012 8:05 am

Bought a pot head for my keg and some other things from them. That was a couple of years ago and no revenuers have showed up yet.

Post by **Prairiepiss** » Tue May 08, 2012 8:23 am

electrictibet wrote:I want to buy this: http://www.milehidistilling.com/product ... g-kit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

i want to get this connector from them to go from a 2 inch column to a keg. I read on home distiller that you can get raided at any moment for buying a still online because you are giving up your shipping address. I just am getting this, am I forfeiting my right to not be searched? its not a still, just a part. can i get in trouble?

Anyone know about this?

Save the money and make an easy flange. And order the triclamp from someone that doesn't sell stills.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=27056
Gasket to go with it.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=24199

Post by **moonshine guy** » Tue May 08, 2012 10:55 am

You can get tri clamps and stainless steel flanges on eBay!

Post by **Dnderhead** » Tue May 08, 2012 11:12 am

dont thank you have a thing to worry about,to be a legal a still it needs a serial number and be registered,iv never seen neither on any of those stills.a still in the us has a paper trail much like a hand gun.

Post by **Prairiepiss** » Tue May 08, 2012 11:14 am

moonshine guy wrote:You can get tri clamps and stainless steel flanges on eBay!

Yes you can. But be careful. Many have ordered from eBay only to get the wrong size or type. Because the seller doesn't correctly label it.

Post by **King Of Hearts** » Tue May 08, 2012 12:42 pm

They must either be busy or don't give a crap, hehe. I got my pot head over two years ago and no knock on the door yet. But I always keep a half full tank of gas and sleep with one eye open, car keys within reach. Dam revenuers. Why don't they get a real job anyway.

thomasedwin · Post by **thomasedwin** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:26 pm

I have read that brew shops that make and sell stills have some kind of thing where they have to give all their customers information when ever the natzis, police request it, I don't know exactly how it works but I think there's some kind of law that in order for brew shops to make and sell stills as a business they have to give up their customers shipping addresses when ever the pigs ask for them. I wouldn't be suprised if some of these still sellers are in bed with the local cops. On a similar note I personally know a guy that got his house raided because he ordered online a Large silica borate glass carboy, It wasn't that he was suspected of making a liquor still but the cops got a warrant from a judge because they said he was using the glassware to cook methamphetamine, but when the cops raided his house they only found the carboy full of peach juice with an air lock making peach wine witch is totally legal, as it turns out the online store that he purchased the carboy from was actually a fake store and the cops themselves selling the glassware in an attempt to bust meth labs. The cops were pissed because they found no lab so they charged him with something called (possession of an illegal assembly) witch was total bullshit. The court threw out the case and now the guy is trying to sue the cops for entrapment and something about fabricating evidence. Personally I would never buy a still or still parts from a online moonshine still company. I'm fabricating all my stuff from other things. I'm even kind of paranoid to purchase 2" copper tubing online, I'm hunting for a plumber to get some second hand scrap copper plus they want too much money for new copper. I bought a ss tri-clamp fitting on ebay for $22. when I saw the exact same fitting at a popular still company for $48. Allways remember that cops are no good dirty roten rat bastards and will try to f*ck over anyone they can. Admin edit .read rule 2 this isn't acceptable way to post

Husker wrote:No one on HD is going to be able to give you 100% solid legal advise. So the advise you get, you will have to think about yourself, and take it for what it's worth.

I imagine mile hi has sold 100's if not 1000's of hobby stills. I certainly doubt that the people who bought them have been 'raided'. Have there been people busted for illegal distillation, and have had a mile hi still? Almost certainly. However, I do not think there is any wide spread 'swoop in' based solely on a still sale, from some on-line dealer.

However, being paranoid, AND overcautious is NOT a bad thing to have, when you are starting into a less than legal hobby, like this one is.

I would bet that 90% of the people who get busted, get busted because they either sold end product, or supplied someone underage. Probably 90% of the rest that get in trouble, are result of 1. pissed off ex (wife, gf, etc). 2. nosy neighbor, or neighbor dispute. 3. they flapped their yap too much about what they were doing. 4. They are busted for something else, and the still/shine is tossed in as a 'extra' charge.

So there are only a few left over (1% in my totally made up statistics), who get into trouble distilling, and who avoided all of the obvious pitfalls (selling, running a crack house, pissing off the ex, etc).

It could be, in your mind, that if you want to stay as covert as possible, that you would not order any 'finished' still on line, OR would find someone else to order it for you. Someone you fully trust, who would NOT be stilling themselves.

Most of us here have made our own (for many reasons). However, there are also many who have purchased from MH, or from other online still sales companies. I have no heard of anyone busted for a still purchase, but again, that does not mean there will not be a FIRST.

H.

Post by **Halfbaked** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:33 pm

have a friend to order it from you that is not in the hobby.

woodshed · Post by **woodshed** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:26 pm

You really have nothing to worry about. Stills or parts for such can and are used for a variety of reasons other than the production of likker. Your post here asking that question is just as traceable to the feds as buying a fitting from an online company. IP served by the feds to show your address. Anyone who thinks they are truly under the radar on this site are fooling themselves. Our government can track anyone at anytime by their posts online. Believing they can't is just dumb.
Privacy in America is a thing of the past. And that's a fact. If they really cared about the activities here this site would no longer exist. And most of ya'll would be in jail.
This so called illegal activity is sooooo far down the totem pole the feds are not gonna waste time tracking you down. It just isn't worth it.
Think about it like this. If you were borrowing money on a daily basis from a couple of wealthy neighbors to keep your household above water would you really be concerned about the guy down the street makin something in his basement that kept him mellow and not in a mood to walk down the street and kick your ass cause you can't pay your own bills? Doubt it.
Bottom line is the feds really don't care about someone makin likker for their own use. They just don't want you selling it without them getting their cut. The law is written the way it is to keep every shiner from feeling like they can sell out the back door. The law creates the fear, the fear controls the masses. Every government on the planet uses one form or another of oppression to control the masses. Ours is just more subtle than most.

dudasaj · Post by **dudasaj** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:06 am

I just got a letter from the ATF because they know I bought equipment from Mile High Distilling... Apparently they weren't willing to fight to maintain the privacy of their past customers

Mr Shine · Post by **Mr Shine** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:00 am

dudasaj wrote:I just got a letter from the ATF because they know I bought equipment from Mile High Distilling... Apparently they weren't willing to fight to maintain the privacy of their past customers

Did you buy a still or other equipment?

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:36 am

Mr Shine wrote:
dudasaj wrote:I just got a letter from the ATF because they know I bought equipment from Mile High Distilling... Apparently they weren't willing to fight to maintain the privacy of their past customers
Did you buy a still or other equipment?

Yes, it seems important to be clear about what has been purchased to trigger the letters. What I have read (or perhaps inferred) is that the TTB only tracks sales of boilers, condensors, and complete stills. Stuff like flanges, fittings, gaskets, etc can be used for many purposes so it seems like it would be a wild goose chase for them to send out letters to those who bought those items. I've bought some stuff from one still/parts retailer - but it was all in the latter categories based on this belief.

Would be good to know what exactly was purchased to trigger the letter. Otherwise this sort of thread is just stirring up paranoia

As for the retailer's willingness to "fight" for their customers - the reporting regulation has been in place for a long time. There's really no upside to the retailer to fight the man. Caveat emptor.

RevSpaminator · Post by **RevSpaminator** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:45 am

woodshed wrote:Your post here asking that question is just as traceable to the feds as buying a fitting from an online company. IP served by the feds to show your address. Anyone who thinks they are truly under the radar on this site are fooling themselves. Our government can track anyone at anytime by their posts online. Believing they can't is just dumb.

Woodshed pretty much nailed it. I don't know if anyone has been listening to news lately, but 5 years ago if someone went around talking about just a few of the things that we now know Big Bro is engaging in, most people would have handed them some pills and the number of a shrink.

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:05 am

This should probably be in another forum - but it is probably worthwhile reading the actual regulation that gives the TTB oversight over manufacture & sale of stills.

Most relevant section to this conversation are the definitions of the term "distilling apparatus", "manufacturer of stills" and "still" (bold emphasis is mine)

Distilling apparatus. A still or condenser, as defined in this section, and any other apparatus to be used for the purpose of distilling.

Manufacturer of stills. Any person who manufactures any still or condenser, as defined in this section, or any other apparatus to be used for the purpose of distilling. The term includes a person furnishing separate parts of a complete still or condenser, of any kind, to a person who assembles same into a still or condenser for distilling and a person who procures materials or apparatus and converts same into a still or condenser for distilling.

Still. Any apparatus capable of being used for separating alcoholic or spirituous vapors, or spiritous solutions, or spirits, from spirituous solutions or mixtures, but shall not include stills used for laboratory purposes or stills used for distilling water or other nonalcoholic materials where the cubic distilling capacity is one gallon or less.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c= ... 27;cc=ecfr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I am sure there are various interpretations of what is covered under this - but seems to me it is complete stills and/or condensors. Not even sure about boilers based on reading this.

Also - + 1 on what the gov't knows about your online activity. If they are interested, they know. But I also think they also don't want to be forced to reveal all their secrets for something as relatively petty as this (vs. the big focus on nat'l security).

planethax · Post by **planethax** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:17 am

"and/or materials that may be used in manufacturing a still"
http://i.imgur.com/juxwAvD.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Even if you purchased a item for your basement plumbing, you will still be a potential candidate to be on the list and investigated if they wish to pursue.

Then with the investigation they would have to prove allegations (or just make your life miserable)

Also I am quite sure MH didn't go to TTB to give them the list, but that they were asked for it and if they did not comply they would/could be fined.
$5000 per customer IIRC but not 100% sure on details.

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:36 am

planethax wrote:Even if you purchased a item for your basement plumbing, you will still be a potential candidate to be on the list and investigated if they wish to pursue.

As I said, I am sure there are many interpretations. That's yours, it may or may not be correct.

It would be useful to have information from people who actually received letters so that we don't have to rely upon conjecture.

planethax · Post by **planethax** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:40 am

Best way is to have a manufacturer/distributor let us in on exactly what the TTB is making them report.
Every customer that purchase any items (hydrometer/ph strips to full complete stills) or just certain items like boilers/condensers etc.
I thought I remembered a manuf posting that info but can't find atm

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:45 am

that would be good too. Cross-post here if you find it. Sounds familiar to me as well.

FWIW, I can't see the TTB having the personnel count or funding where they could engage in a shotgun approach. Seems to me that it would make sense for them to narrow to at least people they know ordered stills.

EDIT: Here is the relevant post - made by Milehighdistilling http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p7084740

They are asking for complete stills also towers and boilers. Not supplies
The paper work from the TTB stats that all still manufacture has to keep and report to the TTB if asked.
If I’m reading correctly the companies could order out of the county and not have to keep records because they are no longer the manufacture.
So companies possibly could use this to sell more Chinese crap

I think that's where I got the idea it was just stills/condensors/boilers that trigger reporting. Retailers might have records of other buyers, but based on that post from MHD, TTB does't appear to be asking for them at this time.

Post by **heartcut** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:04 pm

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=46836

Post by **rad14701** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:47 pm

Here's the rub... If the TTB wanted to be a PITA they would pass legislation which would force anyone advertising to be still manufacturers or distributors to require a verified federal permit prior to sales and would require that information be directed to them, similar to how gun sales are handled in some states...

The TTB is well aware of still and still component sales numbers in comparison to permits issued... And this may be their last stand before conceding defeat... Existing laws aren't work so they'll need to be loosened to one extent or another...

Think about it...

Post by **Prairiepiss** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:01 pm

dudasaj wrote:I just got a letter from the ATF because they know I bought equipment from Mile High Distilling... Apparently they weren't willing to fight to maintain the privacy of their past customers

I would like to say. They didn't have the ability to fight. They are required by law to do just what they did. So making it sound like they did bad. Isn't necessary. The fact that they have to give up this info. If requested. Is available all over the internet. And has been on their website for quite a while.

dudasaj · Post by **dudasaj** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:13 am

I purchased a column and condenser unit.

I had never heard of the TTB rules/laws about turning over customer information. I understand that informing potential customers of this on MHD's website wouldn't be good for business, but it would have been a nice little disclaimer during the checkout process (like informed consent). Yes, perhaps I should have done more research.

***I just looked through most of MHD's site and found nothing about the TTB. Infact the only thing I did find is "All information obtained from this website or by email or phone or otherwise is for informational purposes only." written on the home page.

Post by **rad14701** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:24 am

dudasaj wrote:I purchased a column and condenser unit.

I had never heard of the TTB rules/laws about turning over customer information. I understand that informing potential customers of this on MHD's website wouldn't be good for business, but it would have been a nice little disclaimer during the checkout process (like informed consent). Yes, perhaps I should have done more research.

It is up to you, the consumer, to be aware of any and all state and federal laws as they may pertain to your own situation... For example, if you were vacationing in a state where you could just walk into a gun store and buy a handgun it would be up to you to know whether it is legal to take it with you back to your home state where the laws may be different... That would not be the stores responsibility... Here in the US it is up to every citizen to know the laws and not knowing you are breaking a specific law is not considered and excuse... That's just the way it is...

dudasaj · Post by **dudasaj** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:12 am

Firstly, in your example. If you buy a gun out of state, the shop you buy it from has to ship it to a registered gun shop in your home state before you can take possession of it. That shop in your home state will not allow you to possession of an illegal firearm in your state. I knew the laws that pertained to me, I was unaware of the rules that applied to the retailer.

e.g. it is legal to buy psychedelic mushroom spores, but illegal to grow them.

I didn't mean to bash MHD, I was just sharing what i thought was relevant information.

Home Distiller

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