Pintoshine Style Still From S/H Hot water Cylinder

[Dirge]

I decided I wanted to try distilling.

I decided i was interested in making something with its own flavour rather than making neutral spirit and flavouring it. (judging from the local home-brew shop's attitude and even the goods they stock, this makes me a novelty where I live.) It seemed that a pot still was what I wanted. I found the Pintoshine Kentucky still plans. I like that sort of thing. Generous of you to put that up for all to use Mr P, Thank you.

I saw the price of copper sheet and went and did something else for a few months...

Then one day I had another look at it and went to a few scrap men. I came away with a copper hot water tank for $84 (NZ). First lesson: tell the scrappy why you want it. They get much more interested and helpful. "You can have it for what it cost me if you promise to bring me a bottle when you've made it." Deal!

I've been going at it for a few days now and I have learnt lots already, and I expect that to continue; also I'm ready for a bit of help on the design. I bet everything I wanted or want now is on Hd somewhere but I didn't hit them so I hope this will cut a few corners for someone else.

Find an older tank; they are made of flat sheet with shaped top and bottom. Newer ones have corrugations round them to compensate for the fact that they are made of thinner material. Mine appeared to be soft soldered so I tried to melt it apart, but not only was it some sort of grey high MP solder but they had spot welded the tank up before soldering, so watch for that (didn't know people spot welded copper). I took the tin snips and sheared the top and bottom off, then one cut up the side and I had a flat sheet and 2 ends, one domed nicely. My snips came from one of those boxes of rusty tools in a junk shop. They're good quality, cost buttons, and are perfectly adequate. Don't spend money on saws or nibblers for this job if you don't already have them. Copper cuts easily and hand tools don't make such drastic errors.

I printed off the Pintoshine plans and spent a happy evening cutting and gluing them together. The first benefit of this was to allow me to work out best use of my material by shuffling all the patterns about until they fitted on my materials. I had pipe fittings and dents to work round, and it quickly became clear that I was pushed for material. Then I had a brain-wave. By taking the top shoulder piece out of the shaped tank top instead of my flat piece I would end up with a 'bulged' shoulder piece that might even look better than the original. Was it practical? Yes it was, and suddenly I had copper sheet to spare. The bad news (?) was I was now getting creative. This is dangerous; the temptation is to start down the route of doing the thing to look pretty rather than for practical purposes. I suspect rivets fall into this category, for instance; I can't see that they are needed if you silver solder or braze.

Even so it would be good if it is pretty when done...For an unskilled metal worker (me) the boiler part is the worst bit because of the size of the bits you are playing with. the sensible middle line would probably be SS stockpot and build a copper top end, as someone else here has done. Save a lot of time and effort yet still get the chance to make a 'better' still head and have lots of copper in the vapour path. So I'm already wasting my time in theory. ho hum.

Lime scale. Mine was lightly furred and i still had great trouble with it. The inside deposit was solid. I thought "I'll anneal the copper, that'll shift it." But heat didn't loosen it. Lots of research later and it seemed to come down to vinegar, citric acid or hydrochloric acid (that's muriatic acid if you're into alchemy or spirit of salts if you prefer to speak plain English), preferably hot.

No burner in my workshop yet so I did everything cold, or at best using hot water when diluting. From the net I picked up that the chemists worried about HCl eating holes in the copper during the descaling process. Then I saw the price of spirit of salts and decided to try white vinegar first. That was too slow. Someone on HD mentioned vinegar and salt without much detail so I added salt to the vinegar bath and suddenly we were in business.

Add salt to vinegar and you get....hydrochloric acid! You need lots of salt, lbs of it. I kept adding it and getting more life out of the solution. This stuff will not rot your hand in 2 seconds; you can reach into your bucket and get things out if you rinse it off promptly and it cleaned my plate overnight. It will tell you in no uncertain terms if you have any cuts or sores though, and the solution is probably well loaded with copper after a bit so nicely poisonous so be careful. The vinegar was diluted at least 50 50 by the way; diluted acids still cut.

I cut the components out before cleaning so I could curl them gently into a plastic bucket to soak them, but don't try and shape it before cleaning or you'll beat the scale into the metal and ruin the surface.

Blimey I've written war and Peace already. Ok enough for now; I'll find some pictures to show you where I've got to, then I'd like a bit of advice about the lyne arm.

[Usge]

Welcome Dirge. Just make sure that old copper heater doesn't contain any hazardous materials (like lead solder).

[Dirge]

Welcome Dirge. Just make sure that old copper heater doesn't contain any hazardous materials (like lead solder).

Oh dear! Sorry if I came across as that stupid!

[Usge]

Not at all dirge.

[Pyewacket]

Hurry up with the pictures ...I wanna see this thing.

[HolyBear]

Very nice write up dirge!!! Keep em coming! You NZ boys are lucky to have those ol hot water heaters. I think the Aussies have them too. They do make a pretty pot. Looking forward to some pics...

[Dirge]

OK time to learn how to add pictures here.

Here's the dismembered cylinder; you can see the scale doesn't LOOk frightening but caused grief, so watch this when buying.

Then playing with the patterns to see how to fit it. Note the tubes and fittings I had to avoid

So I was forced into looking at the shaped bits (and this may turn out to be a good thing; we shall see) and here is how I marked out where to cut the dome.

A string stretched tight from the pipe that was conveniently central.

Frustums. Pintoshine explains how to draw them but for rule of thumb stuff like using the spun dome was, you need to understand 2 rules. Firstly the curved edges will (If you think about it )have to be the same lengths as the bits you are fixing them to, and also that length is the circumference of the circle it makes so you can work out the diameter it will end up. Secondly the square ends are just that. At right angles to the curved bits. Make sure that is so and your frustum will not be lopsided. Get your head round 'em and they aren't frightening at all.

The dome cut and bent in a bit so I could see that it DID work...the small section is going to be the top of the still head. It's already domed a bit and I decided to increase and even that out within reason.

The dome cut and bent in a bit so I could see that it DID work...the small section is going to be the top of the still head. It's already domed a bit and I decided to increase and even that out within reason.

The bits all cut out and the scrap that I will be weighing in to get, what? a third of my purchase price back again?

And finally various bits standing loosely on each other.

Right. Now i need a few days to get ahead of you all again. Comments (apart from "well I wouldn't do it THAT way") most welcome.

In particular the lyne arm is in the sights. I'll have my work cut out finishing the boiler and particularly the joint between boiler and head for a while but the lyne arm is up for debate. Comments from experienced hands on what I say next would be particularly appreciated because at the moment this part of the design is looking a bit of a black art.

From my reading here it seems to me that on this scale the distillers ability is far more important than fine detail of the still. people are making quality drink from a pressure cooker with some copper tube sticking out. How I place the lyne arm is not vital therefore? What is convenient to me is a good reason for its placing? And as I'd like to use it on the cooker sometimes the Kentucky still type side exit makes sense.

BUT there is at least the concept of some reflux going on and presumably this must do SOME good or people wouldn't keep making stills like this (right?). A vertical tapering tube will have fluid washing down all sides and refluxing the vapour, whereas on the side arm condensed vapour will run in a stream back down the bottom and the effect seems likely to be less marked.

So that's my Q. Is there a best position for the lyne arm and do we think it really matters?

Secondly do I want to take the vapour off right at the top, or is there a gain in leaving the top of the stillhead as a dead end for the vapour to bounce off the ceiling in?

[feijoa]

Wow, that's looking great!

Thanks for the tip on NZ scrappies. The couple I tried both said "Nah mate, we only buy stuff".
Might try telling them what it's for next time.
Cheers!

[Usge]

dirge...looks really good. Nice work. The expanding head designs of those old stills was to allow the vapor to slow before going out the lynearm..giving it more time to separate (as opposed to just a straight pipe,etc). Some of them had turnip shaped heads. Old alembics have the gooseneck going out the top. But, if it were me...I'd put the lyne arm off to one side...higher up on the head. (ie., there's no point in having an expanding section...and taking the vapor off below it).

Just a thought. I'm sure others will chime in. Again..nice job on your metal work there.

[Prairiepiss]

Nice work. Looks good. Agree with Usge on placement.

I have to ask. What made you decide to cut that lovely tank up to make a pint still? Why not just use the tank as it was for a boiler? I only wish I could get my hands on a boiler like that.

[Dirge]

Prairie; you have to see it from my point of view. I knew what i wanted and the cylinder was the cheap way there (and I think is turning out to be more interesting than if I'd paid for the sheet too). I don't want huge amounts of hooch; this should produce more than enough booze to be a severe temptation to get out of control...so making a BIG still out of it never crossed my mind. Sorry; lack of imagination and ambition there!

Thanks for the explanation Usge; it makes complete sense. The obvious follow up question is would it be worth slanting the top, dropping one side to tilt it up towards the lyne arm, then taking the arm out in the top corner rising slightly (same angle as the tilted top) gradually leveling off? Thus smoothing the corners out a bit? And perhaps opening out the throat of the line arm so the change in X section is lessened? (I think I am beginning to see this in my minds eye already)

[Pyewacket]

Love the copper work Dirge! It is coming together nicely. I personally love the idea of taking a clunky old water tank and making a work of art out of it. Just keep the pictures coming. I would love to see it fired up and a report on the function.

[Soggy Bottom Boy]

.

That looks awesome!

You're like an archaeologist that dug it up from some ancient distillery, ....very cool indeed.

.

[Usge]

The obvious follow up question is would it be worth slanting the top, dropping one side to tilt it up towards the lyne arm, then taking the arm out in the top corner rising slightly (same angle as the tilted top) gradually leveling off? Thus smoothing the corners out a bit? And perhaps opening out the throat of the line arm so the change in X section is lessened? (I think I am beginning to see this in my minds eye already)

I would just go straight into the side near the top. Push the lynearm in, and mark it where it enters the head on the inside..all the way around. That should leave a slanted/angled mark on your lynearm. Trim it, leaving inch or so extra for a"flap" or flange to hammer out (or cut into tabs) and solder that to the inside of the head. Then solder the outside seam. I think that's the way Pint attached his. Would also add that Pint has several videos no youtube of the assembly/construction process if you haven't seen them yet.

[Dirge]

I would just go straight into the side near the top. Push the lynearm in, and mark it where it enters the head on the inside..all the way around. That should leave a slanted/angled mark on your lynearm. Trim it, leaving inch or so extra for a"flap" or flange to hammer out (or cut into tabs) and solder that to the inside of the head. Then solder the outside seam. I think that's the way Pint attached his. Would also add that Pint has several videos no youtube of the assembly/construction process if you haven't seen them yet.

After a lot of thought I was coming round to 'stop getting too clever' myself! Even so I might just slope the top away from the arm; the dead space in the opposite corner seems 'wrong' somehow and easing the gas across to the arm seems sensible. But I'm only talking half an inch or so off so it may well be cosmetic only and I can still use that nice top. Thank you for that. (Oh we've just had a little earthquake strong enough to rattle glasses and swing the pictures on the wall. There are disadvantages to NZ...)

The assembly order is important for a good job I think. All my efforts are focused around getting a good neck joint at the moment. I'm sure it will still need sealing with paste but I want it as close as possible. So: I shall make the head. That fixes the taper at the bottom for good. Then I shall make the collar for the boiler to fit the head. Pint's plan includes a straight collar piece but I'm going to try and match the taper of the head Then attach that to the boiler shoulder. Then the lower side. Get it all as clean and tidy as i can while I can still get in the bottom, then fit the bottom and see if it leaks.

Thanks for all the kind words, everyone. If i melted it with te torch or something now I would look exceptionally stupid, wouldn't I?

[Dirge]

Had a good afternoon on the beast today as you will see.

I've been agonising over the design. It seems to me that having the lyne arm sticking out one side makes a huge dead area on the other side of the top and if I'm out for a clean running still I should at least take a swan neck out of the middle and do away with as many sharp corners as I can while I'm at it. So I'm now making a turnip, it seems. I had a serious go at metal bashing; and didn't do too badly. Now I have never tried to work copper sheet before; I've watched panel beaters work but that's about it.

I made that hollowed bit of wood and started bashing away with a ball pein hammer. Looks bad, eh?

Once it's about the right shape you get out a dolly and dress out the dents with a hammer. Care and patience rather than real skill required. Touch is better than sight for this.

The finished bits and the tools I used.

But there was a disaster! I didn't aneal it often enough it seems.

A fatigue? crack. I'd work hardened the metal and it gave at the edge of a blob of braze.

I bodged it with braze when I fitted the top on. Brazing is cheap and solid but for a duffer like me it's a bit close to the melting point of the copper sheet and i have to watch it. However once done I floated the head upside down in a bucket of water. Must be the flux sealing the holes!

Latest stage. Looks worse than it is because filth of all sorts looks like dents.

Yes of course I am going to cut a hole in it; I thought it would work better to assemble it first and the swan neck detailing is still a bit shakey in my mind. Next job before that is to fit a tapered collar to the boiler top to take the head now that's 'solid' then work down assembling the other parts to it. Swan neck last, I think.

This damn thing is getting out of hand. Considering I was the one who thought rivets were just cosmetic I've got sucked in badly but I hope I will get a better piece of kit for my trouble, even if with hindsight it turns out to be lots of trouble for not much gain. And I am really enjoying it as a thing in itself it's completely new stuff to me and so far very satisfying.

And if you are wondering if you could do the metal bashing bit, yes, almost certainly.

[Usge]

That's looking really good dirge. There was one other here in the last year or so who built an older traditional style turnip head. I'm no expert on all the old traditional designs (but we have some here very knowledeable about them)...but there "was" a purpose for each shape of the head and lynearm. And each one was a little different.

You might find this thread informative http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 16&t=16900

Goose eye...one of our older members...who comes and goes (and ain't never made no likker in his life). He speaks in parables, but his knowledge is deep in this area. Our very own Dnderhead (also a mentor) is also very knowledable in these areas and might be able to answer technical questions about these old designs.

[Dirge]

Thanks again; I hadn't seen that one before I don't think; gleaned more ideas (and his progress matched mine in so many ways) and as always that led to other info too. When I have more time I'll have a look at Dunderhead and Goose eye's posts in search of more insights. You're right he has a way with words; you can almost see the mist swirling round the trees in the Ozarks.

I need to get my components at least sourced before Xmas; here in the southern hemisphere they don't just shut for Xmas they go off for summer hols as well. If you thought everying in the northern hemisphere stalls, well, you have no idea!

[Dirge]

Pushed it on a bit. The cap is now more or less done and you can see the shape I've gone for. The 32mm bend at the top will be soft soldered on so it's easy to change later and the lyne arm will be detachable. The main boiler still needs assembling; both 'hoops are done and need sticking together but I don't like to spend days hammering in the weekend!

In the plumbers merchant I got a nasty shock at the price of malleable tube for the flake stand; I had to buy a roll, twice the length I need and it was going to cost 50% more than my other raw materials, the tank. Just chewing that one over.

[Usge]

Nessie! Little tip on making the outside shine like a new copper penny. Take a lemon, cut it in half, and dip it in a plate of salt. Wipe your still with it (outside only). It's like magic. Give a bit of squeeze and more salt dip as needed. Rinse with water when done.

[Dirge]

Nessie! Little tip on making the outside shine like a new copper penny. Take a lemon, cut it in half, and dip it in a plate of salt. Wipe your still with it (outside only). It's like magic. Give a bit of squeeze and more salt dip as needed. Rinse with water when done.

I see what you mean!

That's Pint o' Shine's lyne arm template hammered a bit to see if it was possible to put a curve in it. I haven't enough spare bits of the old water tank to waste it. I'll pronounce the final verdict when I see how smooth I can get the inside; a bit of curved scrap iron tube to use to shape it would have helped.

Not happy with that sharp plumbers' bend at the top but it's getting to the stage where I'm plugging away at things that have to be done as right as possible first time and leaving parts like that for later attention if needed. I will try and taper the arm down to the flake though (or Liebig!)

I hope I'll be cleaning it for Xmas; my wife keeps finding me 'useful' things to do though...

[rad14701]

Looking good, Dirge... Keep us posted on your progress...

[Dirge]

Looking good, Dirge... Keep us posted on your progress...

Thanks Rad. Christmas is really getting in the way at the moment...

I got the collar sorted and fixed; I'll do a few pics and some notes on that soon; I'd like to finish the boiler and do a one hit stage report. But there's 'just' the shoulder to seam to the lower side, the bottom to shape and fit, and a lot of tidying work.

I sourced my flake tube. The trick is to contact a commercial deepfreeze contractor and wheedle some of their offcuts out of them; it seems they buy the stuff in huge rolls and the ends go for scrap. I now have a couple of lengths of 1/2" ID malleable tubing to play with (BUT WHEN????)

And my brazing is getting better but still blobby. I mentioned this to a friend of mine who usually knows about anything like this and he said "But braze melts at a higher temperature than copper!" I said "It can't do; I'm managing to do it." However I tried to remake a joint that was cock-eyed and went straight through the copper before the braze let go so there clearly isn't much in it. I do at least feel a bit better about the poor finish.

John also suggested that silver solder would make my life ever so much easier. I said "Have you seen the price?" (15X the price of braze perhaps?) and he asked me how much gas I'd used getting everything close to melting point...he also said it was the sort of thing only I would do. I'm still thinking about all that. But I'm probably going to soft solder the flake stand! (having got this far the main still gets finished in braze)

Happy Xmas everyone. See you in the new year when I might be allowed to pick up the torch (literally) again.

[Dan P.]

Nice going, Dirge.
My still is also an ex-copper cylinder, vaguely traditional in shape. I used soft solder (lead free) on mine, and a little bit of tig here and there.
Here in the UK if you get an "indirect" coper cylinder, it comes with a ready-made worm inside; mine came with about 20' of 1" in a beautiful coil.

[ErnieV]

Brilliant copper guys. Dan, I didn't even think of making one like that, I'm in the UK too and they have got loads of them in my local scrap yard. Having said that, I only paid £35.00 for all the stuff to make my Boka.

[Dirge]

Dan I have to say that at this stage (sitting here thinking I must get at it again and aware of how much more work there is before I'll be able to actually use it) I think you went the more sensible route, working with what you had more. I'm already thinking about how I'll do it 'next time', which seems to be a disease that copper builders are prone to, and it will include using the spun shoulders as they are and keeping the diameter so I just cut the sides at the volume I need, making the boiler much simpler. Never mind, I'll get there.

Looks a good workmanlike job. What's the head made of? And the coil was a bit of a free gift, wasn't it? Mine didn't have one. Did you need to descale and if so how did you do it?

And final question; how well does it work?
(Thanks for the nice words Ernie.)

[Dan P.]

Dirge,
She works good!
Head made of copper. I blacked her up a good while ago, believing that the mat black would radiate more heat and therefore cause some passive reflux.
De-scaling; I was lucky enough to get the boiler new, but having used old ones, the scale on the inside of them can be epic, as you probably already know. Heat will pop it off, so will bending the copper, but if you want to use the boiler as-is, maybe an industrial strength de-scaler will be the way you have to go.
The worm was indeed a nice extra, yes, but actually for most of the stilling I've done I've used a shotgun condenser. My shed has no running water, so I had to use the worm.

[Dirge]

I wondered about the black, Dan. I hope I'll get a modest reflux effect off that swan neck bit on mine too

Ho hum. Right, off to buy some silver solder and make my life a bit easier, then I might have a day in the workshop tapping away at copper sheet and get back into it properly....

[Dan P.]

Try soft lead-free solder, Dirge. These old pieces were mostly soft soldered together.
The one problem, whatever you use, is that you are joining parts that are not flat and perfectly mated. If you are like me you will have a good few cock-ups, which is a good reason to use soft solder, as it can be easily "undone", and the solder reclaimed.
How I did it was to put a few solder tacks along the joint, then hammer it as flat/straight as possible, then solder. I did a lot of "skip soldering" so that the heat didn't undo the seams already finished.
However, it appears that you know exactly what you are doing anyway!

[Usge]

Old trick from grandpaw.....a soaking wet rag laid on a seam will also cool that part just enough to keep it from coming unglued while you work on the adjacent part.