Maximum boiler size for hobby???

[hwy419]

This is a touchy issue. I suspect any of us could justify whatever size boiler we wanted to use,
whether it’s 50 or 100 gallons. But we need to keep one thing in mind. What we all are doing,
us in the US, is against State and Federal law. The State and Federal law enforcement know we
are out there. We are allowed to practice our hobby at the pleasure of these authorities. Since
starting this hobby I have believed that we are allowed to pursue our hobby because the
authorities view us as exactly what we claim we are; just a bunch of guys who want to distill a
few gallons for our personal use and have absolutely no desire in transporting or selling. We and
them both know that what we are doing is illegal, but they have decided, for the present time, that
they have more serious crimes to pursue. The only thing we have going for us is our credibility;
at present they believe we are hobbyist distillers. Don’t think for a moment they don’t monitor
this hobby and this forum. If they ever decide this hobby is getting too popular or they keep
reading about folks building larger stills than what they believe is “hobby size”, this tacit and
unspoken agreement between us could change. I guess what I am saying is, for our survival, the
important thing is not what we think is too large for a hobbyist rig, but what they think is too
large.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

BG

+1. Great points.

[goose eye]

you thinkin if they catch you with a keg outfit they gona treat you diferent than a barel outfit
think history would prove otherwise round here


so im tole

[Lucent]

you thinkin if they catch you with a keg outfit they gona treat you diferent than a barel outfit
think history would prove otherwise round here


so im tole

Its best not to give them a reason to look. Its not like they can just walk into your house or barn as they please. They have to have a reason and a warrant and that takes you doing something you're not supposed to be doing. A lot of it. And then you earned it

[goose eye]

i aintgona get into how thangs work in a perfect world cause i aint never lived there but i can tell you how they work in a real world an the good guy dont always win life aint always fair an the rats mostly win the rat race an friendly fire aint


so im tole

[thecroweater]

i aintgona get into how thangs work in a perfect world cause i aint never lived there but i can tell you how they work in a real world an the good guy dont always win life aint always fair an the rats mostly win the rat race an friendly fire aint so im tole

sounding like we's livin in the same world

[Durace11]

(tobacco wine maybe)

off topic but yeah, Perique Tobacco Liquor is really good stuff.

[Kiwikeg]

frozenthunderbolt pretty much covered the NZ situation,
hbs stills are usually 25-30l
most serious homebuilt jobs i have seen for sale here run a 50l keg boiler.
but distilling isnt that comman here despite being not liable for excise tax. its a hobby with people making only enuff for home consumption.
its not a mainstream hobby in my social group at all.
I only know personally, less than 10 active distillers ie those that made at least 1 wash last year.
most people are not interested, prejudiced, or cant afford the inital outlay.

personally i think 60l is absolute max for a hobby still....I am able 2 produce enuff to drink and put some away to age with only a 25l boiler.

my reflux boiler is 25l and my stripper -underconstruction will have a 50l keg boiler
also all my kegs were purchased legally from a keg repair company....

ONE of the several reasons for the current NZ situation was that a previous goverment introduced a policy of 'user pays' and required goverment departments to slash budgets a recover costs- recovering unpaid excise tax from home distillers was deemed not cost efficiant.

[1bottler]

I have 2 boilers, 1 at 20 ltr and 1 at 50 ltr. I run them when I am given wine to distill, how much I've got determines which boiler I use. Most of what I produce is given away or swapped, I have no need to go larger.

[HookLine]

Goose, just for the sake of argument...

You rather get caught with a 13 gallon, 3 inch rig?

Or a 100 gallon, 6 inch?

[frozenthunderbolt]

Goose, just for the sake of argument...

You rather get caught with a 13 gallon, 3 inch rig?

Or a 100 gallon, 6 inch?

Goose wont get caught; he don't still.

So I'm tole.

[goose eye]

hook im betin the ole boy that got that 2 barel outfit aint got near as much likker agein - diferent flavers of likker - at there house as that
ole boy with that 13 gal outfit. im betin there more folks no bout that 13 gal outfit than that 2 barel outfit. im betin more folks
have see that 13 gal outfit on blocks than that 2 barel outfit.
like that prosecuter said one time to ole doc bout ole ax handle makein likker. it bout like bein pregnet. you either is or you aint. aint no litle bit bout nothin.
ole boys could get mayors preachers an the likes to swear a oath on the bible that if a outfit found an it got a colume it aint theres.

as far as me which one i would like to get caught with you left vout - c - none of the above

now this was just for fun cause i never made no likker an aint gona in the future


so im tole

[guittarmaster]

man, Some of you folks got me reconsidering my life choices ..... I can go through a 5th of liquor a week no problem... and that's not even including riding a buzz on the weekend! Then again, i DO enjoy my gin martini's, manhatons, whiskey on the rocks, etc. Drink four martini's on a saturday over the course of 5 hours and watch your bottle just dissapear!

I the biggest problem i see with going big is haveing to reinvest in all that new equipment. You'd need a new mashtun and a large fermenter; possible one of the plastic conicals from the bulk container sites. Than once on a larger scale you'd need a pump to move the mash to and from the boiler. Then you'd need to start to malt your own barley and corn cause running into the home brew shop for several 50# sacks of grain every month or so is gonna earn you queer looks from the church-going folks. Also hope you have a pond, swimming pool, well, or somethig because the water comsumption for a 50-100 gal would be failrly noticable IMHO. I'm not saying *don't* step up to a 50-100 gal boiler, but unless your house is paid off and you plan to die in it, and can wall off half your basement for a secrete distillery I wouldn't. It sorft of makes doing several runs to fill up a barrel sound more reasonable huh?

That being said You better believe that If i was ever open a legal distillery, about a year or two before hand I'd cut my teeth on a lager 100gal... from the comfort of a secret distillery room with well water or a swimming pool! or with a fuel permit; hiding the hearts, and claiming i had HORRIBLE 30% efficient starch conversions.... *not to sell it once open but to learn the still and learn working on that scale so I could open and hit the ground running!*

[Ayay]

If a law cannot be broken how can it be changed? A law can only be changed if you can break it.
No max or min...only break or not break. Getting caught is an option to be avoided.

[Stainless dude]

I don't see a problem with up to say 26 gallon boiler, it's not too big to hide, and it's big enough that filling a five gallon barrel doesn't take a couple of months. If run on gas, smaller runs of say six gallons can be made if one desired.
50 or 100 gallon, I'm not so sure about, seem kind of big to me but if your not selling and just using it for the hobby then I wouldn't want to say that someone shouldn't use one.
I have to agree with guitarmaster, we go through quite a bit of likker at my house..

[goose eye]

think it mite be better to change terminology from hobby to personal comsumption size. then give definition of personal consumption where it be inlaws or outlaws. some folks got 12 brothers an sisters
then they got youngins. some older than there uncles. family of 3 diferent than family of 42 an countin


so im tole

[Truckinbutch]

Family size issue is what I run into . 15 active drinkers make short work of a liter of anything .

[Mazriam]

wow, holy thread resurrection batman!!

Everyone has a different definition of what constitutes making this a hobby. Some would say, if your fermenting more than 20 gallons at a time, it ceases to be a hobby. Others would say that mark is 50 gallons. Obviously there comes a point where everyone can agree it's not a hobby. 1000 gallons?? I don't care who you are, if you fermenting 1000 gallons at a time, it's not a hobby!

The point is, no one can, or should, put a finger on a scale, and say, this is where it's not a hobby, and then enforce it. Everyone is different, everyone has different needs, everyone has different drinking habits. Fermenting 50 gallons a week for a family of 10 seems reasonable to me. Fermenting 50 gallons a week for just one person, goes beyond a hobby. Again, personal circumstances define what volume is considered a hobby.

To set a hard definition of what volume constitutes a hobby, just doesn't work!

[rad14701]

I am working on the verbage which explains the why behind size limits but real life urgent matters, as well as the death of yet another friend, have gotten in the way... It will be spelled out clearly when posted...

[S-Cackalacky]

I am working on the verbage which explains the why behind size limits but real life urgent matters, as well as the death of yet another friend, have gotten in the way... It will be spelled out clearly when posted...

I think I may know where Rad is going with this. I don't want to steal his thunder, but will try to express what I think I've learned about this site. One of the ultimate goals of the site is to set an example to promote the future legalization of the hobby. If you look at the laws already on the books for wine making and brewing, they set forth limits. For the most part, the limits are based on the number of drinking aged adults living in the residence. Not sure, but I think it's something like 100 gallons per year per adult with a maximum of 200(?) gallons per year. So, with that in mind, it doesn't make sense that you would need a 500 gallon brew kettle or ferment tank to supply those amounts of product at a lawful hobby level as set forth by the laws.

So, one of the goals here (HD) is to demonstrate to the authorities/lawmakers that those participating in this hobby are responsible folks willing to follow reasonable guidelines as might be set forth in any future laws that may legalize the limited production of distilled spirits for personal consumption. If you come on here saying you're building a 50 gallon still so you can produce enough drink for 20 family members who may or may not reside with you, you are clearly sabotaging that effort.

Just sayin',
S-C

PS - Sorry Rad, if I might be stepping on what you're planning to say.

[Stainless dude]

Not trying to rock the boat SC, but some of us don't distill all year. When the weather finally gets a little bit nice here we start doing stuff outdoors. So it could be three or four months with no distilling. Even when I start I can't make a run every week, so to over come this I went to a bigger boiler and fermenters. It's 25 gallons, and I know won't be allowed on this site but it is still my hobby and used as such. Just saying.
And I do respect the reasons that rad and you think that it should be kept to a smaller size. It just doesn't work for me..
Cheers

[rad14701]

S-Cackalacky is correct...

The issue Stainless dude brought up is also addressed, but perhaps not along his lines of thinking...

You'll just have to wait until I can focus on the polishing of what has already been written for quite some time and discussed by the management team...

[Truckinbutch]

I,too , am interested in how this is going to play out . This site has been extremely helpful and I would be disappointed if I was 'excused' from it . However , I have 'floated my stick' and can only go where the flow takes me .

[goose eye]

hell truck there gonna be a line before you. ha ha

[S-Cackalacky]

I think some of you are missing the point. I personally don't give a fury rat's ass how many gallons your still is. What I do care about is the idea that you would come on here and boast about it, or otherwise divulge that you are using or building some big assed still so you can supply half your little village with free alcohol. You're doing a huge disservice to those of us who would like to see some form of legalization some day.

If you were on a beer or wine making forum and you came on talking about making a thousand gallons of drink this year because your giving it to all your neighbors on the cul-de-sac, you would be admitting to violating the production limits established by the law and would probably be called out on it. Well folks, we don't even have the law yet that sets limits and already we're demonstrating that we're not responsible enough to live within any kind of reasonable limits. WTF - why is THAT so hard to understand?

Just sayin',
S-C

[Mazriam]

I think some of you are missing the point. I personally don't give a fury rat's ass how many gallons your still is. What I do care about is the idea that you would come on here and boast about it, or otherwise divulge that you are using or building some big assed still so you can supply half your little village with free alcohol. You're doing a huge disservice to those of us who would like to see some form of legalization some day.

If you were on a beer or wine making forum and you came on talking about making a thousand gallons of drink this year because your giving it to all your neighbors on the cul-de-sac, you would be admitting to violating the production limits established by the law and would probably be called out on it. Well folks, we don't even have the law yet that sets limits and already we're demonstrating that we're not responsible enough to live within any kind of reasonable limits. WTF - why is THAT so hard to understand?

Just sayin',
S-C

In other words, if your going to be making huge quantities of spirits, don't brag about it.

In addition, don't fool yourself into thinking that this board will have any kind of influence as to whether or not this hobby gets legalized in any way shape or form. Because, it won't!!

btw, I crunched the numbers. If we were to extrapolate the numbers from how much wine you can legally make to how much spirits you can make, (if or when, it gets legalized), it equates to 24 gallons of 100% abv.

[Tater]

Naw whats being decided is what size can be posted on open forums about.Not removing members who have larger but keeping it off open forums. We don't care what size your willing to take a chance with.We hope someday to see home distilling legal.Like beer and wine there will be guide lines.If it happens there will either be a set still size or a limit to amount of alcohol or both. My personal 2 cents would be 15 to 30 gallon max still size and wash /mash no more the the state in question allows for beer or wine.

[wv_cooker]

First I don't drink enough to ever worry about what size limits will be set, I for one will always be in that limit with my keg I would assume. My concern is that with the onslot of TV shows and new folks such as myself coming into the hobby we could be hurting ourselves and others with setting the limits too low. It is my understanding that right now the limit is 26 gallons for boiler size. That pretty much holds folks to buying a keg or a boiler from a commercial supplier like Brewhaus and others.

26 gallon milk cans are going for around $500.00, the cheapest that I could find a keg legally from the manufacturer was $119.00 6 month's ago and they have raised that to $129.00 now. My question is what about the guy who works in a plant with plenty of 55, 30, and 40 gallon stainless drums and his boss says we are throwing that away do you want it? Are we going to say naw you have to spend $500.00 to be around here and stay legal. Nothing we do at this point is legal!

For the most part all I see here are responsible people from all walks of life, the others don't last long. Using your own numbers S-Cack, if a person were to use a 50 gallon keg, with head space distill once a week, which is a little excessive from what I see. You would do about a 40 gallon wash or mash, if it were a 10% wash you would get about 4 gallon of product, multiplied by 52 weeks equals 208 gallons per year. Take out vacations and times you miss a week and you are within your limits.

Now realize that 100, 200, 500 gallon has other motives and doesn't belong. And yes I realize that the forum administrators have a responsibility to hold postings and information to the hobby or home use level. I also realize that there are commercial ventures using 50 gallon boilers, and I wish them great success, but I don't think we should penalize folks that are showing responsibility by telling them they can't use something that may have been given them for free as long as it is within reason of responsibility. Once the government set's the rules then and only then will we have exact numbers. Hopefully that will come sometime soon and we can all say hello! Just my 2 cents, nothing derogatory meant towards anyone.

[S-Cackalacky]

I think some of you are missing the point. I personally don't give a fury rat's ass how many gallons your still is. What I do care about is the idea that you would come on here and boast about it, or otherwise divulge that you are using or building some big assed still so you can supply half your little village with free alcohol. You're doing a huge disservice to those of us who would like to see some form of legalization some day.

If you were on a beer or wine making forum and you came on talking about making a thousand gallons of drink this year because your giving it to all your neighbors on the cul-de-sac, you would be admitting to violating the production limits established by the law and would probably be called out on it. Well folks, we don't even have the law yet that sets limits and already we're demonstrating that we're not responsible enough to live within any kind of reasonable limits. WTF - why is THAT so hard to understand?

Just sayin',
S-C

In other words, if your going to be making huge quantities of spirits, don't brag about it.

Part of it. Also, coming on here saying that you just bought a 55 gallon ss drum and you gonna put it in your basement on a propane burner and hope you don't set the house on fire or blow up your whole city block. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that THAT kind of talk ain't good for the hobby.

In addition, don't fool yourself into thinking that this board will have any kind of influence as to whether or not this hobby gets legalized in any way shape or form. Because, it won't!!

May or may not. Where do you think the media goes to research a story? If there's suddenly some talk about the possibility of legalization, the press will start digging around for information and they'll go to the easiest place to find it - the internet. It would be nice to know if their googling leads them to HD, they will find information here that sheds light on us in a positive way. This site does a lot to promote safety and to dispel a lot of false information. So, some yahoo reporter comes on here and the first thing he stumbles upon is the guy with his 55 gallon still in the basement running on propane - not a good picture.

btw, I crunched the numbers. If we were to extrapolate the numbers from how much wine you can legally make to how much spirits you can make, (if or when, it gets legalized), it equates to 24 gallons of 100% abv.

So what? How many beer and wine makers do you think actually pay much attention to the limits - oops, it's June and I've made 100 gallons of beer, guess I better stop for the rest of the year. Most, I bet, don't even keep track of what they make. The limits don't mean much because it's probably impossible to enforce them - hell, can't prove what you already drank unless maybe they measure your piss flow rate.

Anyway, Just sayin',
S-C

[Prairiepiss]

Hey leave my flow rate out of it.

[Mazriam]

When, or if, the government decides they want to legalize this hobby, they're not going to search the internet to see what kind of limits they want to impose on hobbyists. They're not gonna see what some internet reporter wrote about it. They're going to do their research, sponsor studies, nail down just how much alcohol an average drinker might be drinking, family size, how many people are in the family that drinks, etc...etc... A whole slew of variables will be considered.....i would not expect senators and representatives to be reading the HD site determining limits from it. I would be surprised to learn that they even knew about the site.