Tongue numbing booze

[Stevenav]

Okay, I have got to ask a question on some rum I just brewed.

I used a variation on Pugi's rum .

Spec.
3 gal of molasses
4 lbs of brown sugar
4 lbsps of yeast nutrient.
1/2 pound of white sugar.
enough water to get to 12 gals of wash. Let sit 1 3/4 week to ferment. (used white labs neutral grain spirit yeast.

I get this alcohol that comes out of this mash going through the still... it smells like butterscotch and when it hits my tongue... it goes numb.

I'm pulling 184 proof off this stuff... and it smells wonderful, but hits my tongue link nococain. What the hell? Is this supposed to happen? Did I do something wrong?

[Stevenav]

no, just tasting it. I didn't expect it to just go "Wham! your tongue now can no longer work and it now is asleep"

I was just shocked it had that effect. And yes, I'm going to dillute it but I had no idea 184 proof would actually deaden your tongue.

[T-Pee]

Did you even do cuts before diluting? Knock it off or you'll hurt yourself.

tp

[MyUncleMo]

Coming off at 75% my Hook Rum 2nd Distillation burned the shit out of my tongue while tasting a dab from the tap. The serious burn went away about jar #4.
What T-Pee said!!!

[Stevenav]

yes,

cuts were as follows.
12 gal of wash. First 5 gals of wash. 150 ml of foreshots, then maybe 200-300 ml of heads. Then into the heart till the sweet smell went away and then tails and rum oils followed (oils into it's own bottle, heads and tails into a bottle for next batch) wash rinse repeat for 2nd run using the still again and finishing off the wash.

[T-Pee]

yes,

cuts were as follows.
12 gal of wash. First 5 gals of wash. 150 ml of foreshots, then maybe 200-300 ml of heads

Doesn't sound like enough fores or heads cuts but I'm certainly not a rum expert. Might have contributed the burn you got.

tp

[googe]

Did you collect in small.amounts for the entire run?, or just what you thought were hearts in one hit?. If you did small cuts, dilute the middle jar to drink strength then taste it, high proof will burn!.

[Stevenav]

I broke the heart into 3 parts based on taste and smell. (when I could taste it that is)

I'm following the guidelines laid out in Alaskan bootlegger's handbook. That the foreshots should be about 120 ml (and that's ruthless according to the author... as in playing it WAY safe) for a 5 gallon run (I've two 6 gallon runs from a 12 gallon wash)
The hearts (since this was a first run after reading pretty much everything I can on the site) I broke into three parts, and then I captured the tails and then when the abv fell to 30-20% I collected that as the Rum oils as Pugi recommended in his rum recipe.

So I got head and tails in a bottle for including in the next wash, 3 bottles for the hearts, and then 1 bottle of rum oils.

And now... I gotta ask, george... why is everyone so fixated on breaking up the hearts and talking about how they broke up a run, rather than actually answer questions?

Forgive me if it seems rude, but it's like everyone wants to discuss the minutea of "how I put my booze in bottles to break it up for collection" which is... I guess... okay, but doesn't really help until you have run things enough to actually know when you should break it up into little batches... and that takes time to acquire that sort of experience and knowledge to do it right.

The tongue numbing effect... is that normal or not? Is it indicative of a problem with the hooch?

[DFitz]

Keep the 2nd & 3rd part of the hearts, mix, proof to 130 and add oak chips. Feed some of your needier friends the 1st part of the hearts. This will give you the ability to do a bit more reading and build up some stock. The private stock will start getting nice in 6 mos. or so.

The reason you break up your collections into 400 ml or so sized jars is to discern what tastes, smells and feels good. This way your not pissin in the wind with all your time and work.

[googe]

I'll answer for George . 200~300ml doesn't sound.like enough for taking heads, so your hearts will have heads in them, and at high proof it will burn. We take cuts and talk about it because it's the best way to separate the fractions. When learning,Taking small collections of 200~300 through the entire run will.separate everything well. When you learn how much of every fraction your still produces then you can take larger cuts. You still didn't say if it burns when diluted. Good luck

[T-Pee]

To be even more clear:

I distill in 10 gallon batches and collect in 250ml increments. Once aired out after 24 hours to allow some of the higher (read "burn") alcohols to evaporate, the cuts can be made a bit easier.

Start in the middle of the run, use a teaspoon and into a shot glass, dilute a sample of each jar 50% and smell and taste towards the tails first. When you get to the "high" tails that smell or taste weird, set that jar aside. Then go back and do the same towards the heads. When it begins to burn or smells "hot", set that "low" heads jar aside.

You've now isolated your hearts pretty accurately.

tp

[Truckinbutch]

Your tongue went numb but your fingers got belligerent . Lot of posts here about the value of collecting in small amounts during a run and diluting sample tastes after airing . High test sample like that numbed your tongue and your judgement in an instant .
Happens in the best of families .
Water it down a bit before you taste it and you will get a better idea of what your run is

[IrishEnigma]

To be even more clear:

I distill in 10 gallon batches and collect in 250ml increments. Once aired out after 24 hours to allow some of the higher (read "burn") alcohols to evaporate, the cuts can be made a bit easier.

Start in the middle of the run, use a teaspoon and into a shot glass, dilute a sample of each jar 50% and smell and taste towards the tails first. When you get to the "high" tails that smell or taste weird, set that jar aside. Then go back and do the same towards the heads. When it begins to burn or smells "hot", set that "low" heads jar aside.

You've now isolated your hearts pretty accurately.

tp

Perfect explanation. It didn't take me long to figure out what I liked and what I wanted to do with it. Follow this then start experimenting with blending. I don't do all that much blending bc I like the taste of the early-mid hearts. I blend the heads/earlier hearts into the late hearts/early tails. Then the rest is feints/fire starter .

[IrishEnigma]

Oh yeah then a bit of water definitely makes the flavor pop.

[Stevenav]

I'll answer for George . 200~300ml doesn't sound.like enough for taking heads, so your hearts will have heads in them, and at high proof it will burn. We take cuts and talk about it because it's the best way to separate the fractions. When learning,Taking small collections of 200~300 through the entire run will.separate everything well. When you learn how much of every fraction your still produces then you can take larger cuts. You still didn't say if it burns when diluted. Good luck

I think I DID in fact say it. Let me restate this... clearly... so that there is no ambiguity about what I am asking.

Now, as I was saying... throughout the run, the distillate had this specific trait that I was asking people about and which I STILL have not had a single person answer clearly with a "Yes there is a problem with your run... it's likely X or possibly Y" or "No, that sounds like Z... which is nothing to worry about"

Don't get me wrong, I DO appreciate all the info about cuts, but cuts didnt seem to figure into this. It happened from the beginning to the end. I was just wondering if this is a trait of all high proof runs or if there is something wrong with this.

And no... there was not a hint of burn.. it just makes your tongue shut down... as in like lidocaine on the tongue

[googe]

I'm.guess high proof will make your.tounge numb. Never heard of it being a problem with a run.

[Stevenav]

I'm.guess high proof will make your.tounge numb. Never heard of it being a problem with a run.

Do you mean "I guess that high proof alcohol will make your tongue numb." I was reading it and wasn't sure exactly what you were trying to say so I guessed... If so, thanks. I appreciate the candor.

[Doogie]

well, not knowing at what stage you are novocaining your tongue (right after you collect the 200-300mls or later in the hearts?) I have to assume that it is right after collecting that small amount of heads.

Now, from your duplicate post, it seems you were running your t500 in more of a potstill type mode with minimal packing - if so, you probably are tasting heads - maybe heads with some hearts - dunno - we can't tell you for sure because we are not tasting it, not seeing the collection numbers, dunno when you are sampling it ... dunno ...

But many will probably tell you that when the hearts are properly collected, a sip of a high proof good heart collection will, well, taste a touch alcohol like and not really burn - kind of warm you up a bit as it goes down (little sample of course to be safe). I understand the sensation you are talking about because if I dip my finger in heads (when I was learning about cuts and stages) I to laughed and thought it was funny when my lips went goofy feeling and such ... but I also found that sensation in my first few runs when I got greedy and took in too many heads with the hearts, ran the still a bit too fast ..

... but in truth, all we can do is speculate what is going on ... like others have said, but you refuse to listen, that none of us, nor yourself, can accurately tell you what is going on. We can only speculate, based on the small heads cut, that you are simply sucking on heads or heads/hearts. In an effort to correct your, what seems to be, mistake, you have all told us to shove our cuts theory up our asses. Now, with proper cuts, you could have said "hey, I am going thru my cuts and it burns my tongue the whole way thru" and we would have said you either ran too quick or had a crappy wash. You could have said "hey, it burns at the beginning, here is my cut info and volumes" and we may have said "you are being too greedy"

I guess, if you do not want to listen to our advice, I would then direct you to the t500 manufacturer's website or manual, or go read up or contact the author of that book you are reading ... though he probably does not know what a t500 is since that book's first edition was 14 years ago ... dunno - give him a shout - maybe you will listen to him

[T-Pee]

And a snappy comeback in 3...2...1...

tp

[planethax]

Some people can eat very spicy food with out burning some can't stand any at all.
Point being every ones different.
That said it could be very possible that it would effect you that way through Heads or Hearts if its at 184 proof I would imagine.

I would recommend doing your cuts and diluting then recheck.

[bellybuster]

And a snappy comeback in 3...2...1...

tp

hahaha, beat me to it.

[rad14701]

Stop trying to taste high proof spirits and you won't have a numb tongue... You should be diluting your samples before attempting to taste and smell them... You will also have a better chance of picking your cut points with the samples diluted to 80 - 100 proof... If you're gonna go through the motions, do it right... Simple and to the point...

[Jimbo]

The Butterscotch comment is a little concerning. That butterscotch flavor comes from diacetyl. In small quantities its a natural product of fermentation, but excessive diacetyl is usually a bacterial infection.

Note yeast will mop up diacetyl after fermentation by leaving the ferment in contact with the yeast for a couple more days. This is common when making lager beer. Lager yeasts produce quite a bit of diacetyl, so after cold lager fermentation (48F) a 'diacetyl rest' at elevated temps (60F) for 2 days will clear up the diacetyl flavor.