Single Tube Coldfinger(sort of) coolant flow

[Getsmokin]

Was wondering what the best direction of coolant flow was for a sort of coldfinger (don't think its a true coldfinger)? This is in a MH torpedo (the one with the 1x7" RC tube inside). Before someone tells me to do more reading, i have, which is why i am confused. There is a lot of contradicting info on here. Do you go against the vapors or against gravity?

[jedneck]

I would say cold in the top hot out the bottom.

[Getsmokin]

I would say cold in the top hot out the bottom.

this is what I am hoping everyone says. Did wonder about possibly not being able to get all the air out hurting performance?

[googe]

Don't know what they look like, got any detailed pics?. from the Web site they look like a jacketed condenser?. I've always done in the bottom out the top. Everyones different. you will need a valve to run it, so if you put cold in the top then exit the bottom, just put the valve on the bottom to hold pressure back to keep the condenser full.

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

You want a temp gradient for any condenser. That means if it's a product condenser, cold it bottom hot out top. Reflux condenser, cold in top hot out bottom.

[still_stirrin]

Takora said it right: your reflux condenser is cold in the top and warm out the bottom. This sets up a temperature gradient so you don't get shock cooling in it. Its a parallel-flow heat exchanger.

The product condenser (I assume a Liebig) is most efficient when the cold water inlet is near the liquid product outlet. This is a counter-flow heat exchanger. The product can approach the inlet temperature of the coolant this way. HEX designs.

ss

[T-Pee]

Interesting discussion as I just made a coldfinger for my CM and have been wrestling with this subject.

My first inclination would be to fill at the bottom due to the lack being able to properly purge air from it if filled from the top. While thinking about it this morning I realized that since my cooling lines to the coldfinger are simple plastic tubing I can simply cross them, fill from the bottom until the air is purged, close the valve and swap the lines to fill from the top if that makes more sense to do so. Filling from the top would make more sense when considering shock cooling.

Discussion on mine is here: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=51586

tp

[Getsmokin]

Don't know what they look like, got any detailed pics?. from the Web site they look like a jacketed condenser?. I've always done in the bottom out the top. Everyones different. you will need a valve to run it, so if you put cold in the top then exit the bottom, just put the valve on the bottom to hold pressure back to keep the condenser full.

There, finally got them to load.

[Getsmokin]

Interesting discussion as I just made a coldfinger for my CM and have been wrestling with this subject.

My first inclination would be to fill at the bottom due to the lack being able to properly purge air from it if filled from the top. While thinking about it this morning I realized that since my cooling lines to the coldfinger are simple plastic tubing I can simply cross them, fill from the bottom until the air is purged, close the valve and swap the lines to fill from the top if that makes more sense to do so. Filling from the top would make more sense when considering shock cooling.

tp

It looks like on your coldfinger if there was a small air bleed hole in the top of your outlet tube purging air wouldn't be a problem with top to bottom flow.

[T-Pee]

Interesting discussion as I just made a coldfinger for my CM and have been wrestling with this subject.

My first inclination would be to fill at the bottom due to the lack being able to properly purge air from it if filled from the top. While thinking about it this morning I realized that since my cooling lines to the coldfinger are simple plastic tubing I can simply cross them, fill from the bottom until the air is purged, close the valve and swap the lines to fill from the top if that makes more sense to do so. Filling from the top would make more sense when considering shock cooling.

tp

It looks like on your coldfinger if there was a small air bleed hole in the top of your outlet tube purging air wouldn't be a problem with top to bottom flow.

And what about the water leak after the air purge?

tp

[Getsmokin]

Interesting discussion as I just made a coldfinger for my CM and have been wrestling with this subject.

My first inclination would be to fill at the bottom due to the lack being able to properly purge air from it if filled from the top. While thinking about it this morning I realized that since my cooling lines to the coldfinger are simple plastic tubing I can simply cross them, fill from the bottom until the air is purged, close the valve and swap the lines to fill from the top if that makes more sense to do so. Filling from the top would make more sense when considering shock cooling.

tp

It looks like on your coldfinger if there was a small air bleed hole in the top of your outlet tube purging air wouldn't be a problem with top to bottom flow.

And what about the water leak after the air purge?

tp

a very small bleed hole (like numbered drill sizes) inside the condenser shouldn't effect the coolant flow much. A lot of car thermostats work this way. Or you can just turn it over, whatever works for you.

[skow69]

I wouldn't use an open hole. Put the air bleed on the input pipe, outside the still, and use a stop cock, like a radiator drain.

That blue is beautiful. What is that, powder coat?

[Getsmokin]

Interesting discussion as I just made a coldfinger for my CM and have been wrestling with this subject.

My first inclination would be to fill at the bottom due to the lack being able to properly purge air from it if filled from the top. While thinking about it this morning I realized that since my cooling lines to the coldfinger are simple plastic tubing I can simply cross them, fill from the bottom until the air is purged, close the valve and swap the lines to fill from the top if that makes more sense to do so. Filling from the top would make more sense when considering shock cooling.

tp

It looks like on your coldfinger if there was a small air bleed hole in the top of your outlet tube purging air wouldn't be a problem with top to bottom flow.

And what about the water leak after the air purge?

tp

I get the feeling no one's following me. The hole would be inside the condenser between the top of the outlet tube and the water inlet, say a # 60 or smaller bit. This would bleed any air at all times automatically. But if you have already assembled yours it probably to late (unless you want to take it back apart, that is).

[googe]

ThAnks or the pics!, I agree, the blue looks cool!. The condenser looks small for the column size, do you know what diameter it is?. Do the coolant lines screw into the column?, I've always wanted to try it that way instead of soldering them in. Have you run it yet?, does it hold full reflux ok?. Sorry for all the questions, like learning how manufacturers do what they do as they don't usually share freely.

[Getsmokin]

ThAnks or the pics!, I agree, the blue looks cool!. The condenser looks small for the column size, do you know what diameter it is?. Do the coolant lines screw into the column?, I've always wanted to try it that way instead of soldering them in. Have you run it yet?, does it hold full reflux ok?. Sorry for all the questions, like learning how manufacturers do what they do as they don't usually share freely.

it's a bit under sized at 1"x7" . Its fully welded in (I wish it wasn't) with compression fittings to copper on the outside. I have gotten full reflux out of it, but it's a bit touchy. I have just reversed the rc flow from bottom to top to top to bottom in hopes of getting the tails to compress.

[jedneck]

ThAnks or the pics!, I agree, the blue looks cool!. The condenser looks small for the column size, do you know what diameter it is?. Do the coolant lines screw into the column?, I've always wanted to try it that way instead of soldering them in. Have you run it yet?, does it hold full reflux ok?. Sorry for all the questions, like learning how manufacturers do what they do as they don't usually share freely.

it's a bit under sized at 1"x7" . Its fully welded in (I wish it wasn't) with compression fittings to copper on the outside. I have gotten full reflux out of it, but it's a bit touchy. I have just reversed the rc flow from bottom to top to top to bottom in hopes of getting the tails to compress.

Maybe try a very loose scrubber around the finger to improve the cooling.

[rad14701]

Maybe try a very loose scrubber around the finger to improve the cooling.

+1 on that...

[skow69]

That's a shame. It wouldn't have been much harder to fit a coil in there.

[Getsmokin]

That's a shame. It wouldn't have been much harder to fit a coil in there.

No kidding! I was going to try to make a condenser to fit around the coldfinger, but decided it was easier to just build another column.

[CR33G3R]

So have you run that cold finger yet? I thought about doing that for my current build since I botched my first coil, but then I did some quick math to do a surface area comparison. A large cold finger say 1*10 doesn't even come close to a 1/4 inch coil of about 8 inch total length even if it is single wound. After that little thought I went out and bought another 10 foot of copper and tried again.

[Getsmokin]

So have you run that cold finger yet? I thought about doing that for my current build since I botched my first coil, but then I did some quick math to do a surface area comparison. A large cold finger say 1*10 doesn't even come close to a 1/4 inch coil of about 8 inch total length even if it is single wound. After that little thought I went out and bought another 10 foot of copper and tried again.

Just finishing up another run now. Have to say that 1"x7" condenser in a 3" tower is not even close to being big enough! I'm really starting to feel like i get more reflux from the 4' packed column than this dinky thing.

[Getsmokin]

Maybe try a very loose scrubber around the finger to improve the cooling.

+1 on that...

Thanks for the suggestions. So i just tried that and unfortunately no real improvement. Don't suppose you have any other suggestions, before i scrap this thing?

[rad14701]

You probably need larger diameter cold finger... Whether it needs to be longer or not is subjective... How about two opposing 1" cold fingers in there, side by side with ports on opposite sides of the column...??? Bet that would work...

[Getsmokin]

So have you run that cold finger yet? I thought about doing that for my current build since I botched my first coil, but then I did some quick math to do a surface area comparison. A large cold finger say 1*10 doesn't even come close to a 1/4 inch coil of about 8 inch total length even if it is single wound. After that little thought I went out and bought another 10 foot of copper and tried again.

HOLY CRAP! I just ran some surface area #s, what a POOR design! It would need to have 2-3 times the surface area to mathematically work! Thanks MH! F...ed again!

[Getsmokin]

You probably need larger diameter cold finger... Whether it needs to be longer or not is subjective... How about two opposing 1" cold fingers in there, side by side with ports on opposite sides of the column...??? Bet that would work...

Thanks, I'm pretty sure your on to something here.

[googe]

Sure sounds like a bad design on there part!. I bet they claim bold numbers on there site!. I've been trying to think of a way you can fix it but can't see anything apart from.adding a scrubber like other said, but that hasn't worked!. You could cut the condenser out and put a.larger one in, would be a biggish job!. Was going to suggest putting another condenser above the one in there but looks like that would foul with your takoff point?. A second could work like rad said. Only other thing I can think of is blocking up all the Ports on the column and building a new column head to clamp on the top. Still alot of work cause everything looks welded on, liebig welded on?.

[Getsmokin]

Sure sounds like a bad design on there part!. I bet they claim bold numbers on there site!. I've been trying to think of a way you can fix it but can't see anything apart from.adding a scrubber like other said, but that hasn't worked!. You could cut the condenser out and put a.larger one in, would be a biggish job!. Was going to suggest putting another condenser above the one in there but looks like that would foul with your takoff point?. A second could work like rad said. Only other thing I can think of is blocking up all the Ports on the column and building a new column head to clamp on the top. Still alot of work cause everything looks welded on, liebig welded on?.

I guess i don't remember them claiming anything other than it being a reflux still (which it really isn't). But if you want the compression of a pot and at 185 proof it can do that. Yes everything is welded and very solid (just poorly engineered). I think i will just start over, though i may cut the tower off right below the take off port and weld a furrow on it.

[skow69]

Make a coil and drop it in the top. You'll need to drill 2 holes in the cap next to the thermometer and solder the lines in. I assume that is a stainless blank in a tri-clamp. Use flexible tubes outside the still. When you want more output, turn the water down. You will have total control of the reflux ratio from zero to full.

[skow69]

That's really disappointing that Mile Hi did that. I thought they had a clue. It should be immediately obvious to anyone who has ever run a column that it won't get anywhere near full reflux. It just blows me away that someone will put their name on a product and sell it for good money without ever trying it to see if it actually works. I'm incredified.

[milehidistilling]

We have probably sold over 3000 of the Torpedo towers in the last 7 years and it’s what I have for my personal still and it seems to work for me. The few complaints we have had or people running a little too fast and the condenser will not keep up.

Simple fix cut a thin strip of copper mesh about 1” wide 2’ long work it in the ¾”condenser tube. It helps to get the vapor swirling and works.
This is a video of the Torpedo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL0rEx6-YuI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow