FLUTE TALK

[Stimson]

how much electricty ie. watts do you need to run a 4inch, 3 or 4 level bubble cap or plated column?
Is there a suggested minimum amount or is gas the better option?

[Odin]

I know Old Dog runs his rig at 2,400 Watts. So much gas should be returned by the dephlag that all your plates are covered with liquid as much of possible. Not speaking from flute experience, but from an interest in flute design and having read most of the posts.

Odin.

[LWTCS]

Yes 2400-2500 Watts is prolly the best recommendation. OD only controls with water as he is adequately satisfied with his input.
Others with more electrical capacity often use more Watts with a controller for faster heat up or larger boiler charge
I use a 4500 and a controller

[astronomical]

What new design modifications are in development?

I see larger diameter downcomers. This makes me think that a stronger dephlag may be needed so you can pump more power and achieve more cycles. Perhaps a size increase wont be necessary and we will just see faster changes in dephlag water temps when running higher wattage/more gas. Damned if i know.

I see downcomers that don't extend to the plate below (The penny valve build by Sungy). This makes me think you could use larger diameter downcomers with large cups and not have to worry about the "real estate" it would take up on your plate. Some might say that suspending a large cup/cap would inhibit vapor flow but I highly doubt that. Wont the vapor fill up all space, between plates, once in full reflux? Isn't there like a dew point or something that is achieved? Id like to know how this will work.

I see people using a "fenced" perimeter on plates. My thought are that if there is a gap it will either let vapor pass up or liquid pass down. If you have a fence that is higher than your wier than arent you almost guaranteeing that a portion of vapor will go up without passing through the plate? The converse is obviously that liquid will/may pass down with no "fence", but, there is pressure trying to keep that from happening. Even if the liquid does drop down it would still have to pass by several plates before it could reenter the boiler. I'm curious if these fences are effective.

I'm no expert.. I'm just trying to think things through before I proceed. I think I will do 3/4" DCs with 1.25" cups suspended 2" from the plate above.

[astronomical]

What kind of 1/16th bit are suggested? What has worked well for you?


Cleveland Cobalt Steel Short Length Drill Bit, TiCN Coated, Round Shank, 135 Degree Split Point 1/16th
http://www.smallparts.com/cleveland-cob ... =Cleveland" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

How about those^

I'm concerned that long bits may wobble too much in the drill press. I considered round point end mills as well.

Whats the best choice with a drill press?

[Sungy]

What new design modifications are in development?


I see downcomers that don't extend to the plate below (The penny valve build by Sungy). This makes me think you could use larger diameter downcomers with large cups and not have to worry about the "real estate" it would take up on your plate. Some might say that suspending a large cup/cap would inhibit vapor flow but I highly doubt that. Wont the vapor fill up all space, between plates, once in full reflux? Isn't there like a dew point or something that is achieved? Id like to know how this will work.

I was actually conserving space. By raising the downcommer I was able to get one more valve in. ( only 3" column )

What new design modifications are in development?


I see people using a "fenced" perimeter on plates. My thought are that if there is a gap it will either let vapor pass up or liquid pass down. If you have a fence that is higher than your wier than arent you almost guaranteeing that a portion of vapor will go up without passing through the plate? The converse is obviously that liquid will/may pass down with no "fence", but, there is pressure trying to keep that from happening. Even if the liquid does drop down it would still have to pass by several plates before it could reenter the boiler. I'm curious if these fences are effective.

The "fence" was simply put "easy way to fit plate tightly into column". I made the plates with 1/16" clearance space. Then the copper strip was applied. This was then just under 2.300" (colomn is 2.495"). The plate is then installed into the column so thet only the top 1/8" is above the column. I then jently rubbed the edge with a pipe to flair it a bit.
Result is a tight fit that slides in and out very easily. A necessary requirement when working on an untested design.

[NcHooch]

I'm looking at doing something new here ...
it'll use a 3" column (prolly just 3 plates) and maybe a small diameter dephleg (1.5") ...
haven't decided what kind of plates...maybe bubblecap ... maybe perf again

I'm shooting for a compact unit. that has pretty good takeoff, and can produce ~65-70% in a single run, and hopefully with good heads and tails compression .... (might only get 3 outa 4 there)

[olddog]

The Stumpy prototype I built performed very well. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p6902147" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


OD

[olddog]

I am currently using Flute Mk11, which is a 4 plater, Stumpy was a prototype for this.


OD

[emptyglass]

I'm looking at doing something new here ...
it'll use a 3" column (prolly just 3 plates) and maybe a small diameter dephleg (1.5") ...
haven't decided what kind of plates...maybe bubblecap ... maybe perf again

I'm shooting for a compact unit. that has pretty good takeoff, and can produce ~65-70% in a single run, and hopefully with good heads and tails compression .... (might only get 3 outa 4 there)

I reckon you'll still get good compression, assuming you can reflux 100% of vapor.

As for size, like the girls say, its not the size of the column that counts, its how you use it.

But yeah, you might only get 3 out of 4 according to current rules.

Are you a rule breaker? I hope so.

Are you sure you mean 1.5" dia. deflag, or 1.5" long?

[NcHooch]

I'm looking at doing something new here ...
it'll use a 3" column (prolly just 3 plates) and maybe a small diameter dephleg (1.5") ...
haven't decided what kind of plates...maybe bubblecap ... maybe perf again

I'm shooting for a compact unit. that has pretty good takeoff, and can produce ~65-70% in a single run, and hopefully with good heads and tails compression .... (might only get 3 outa 4 there)

I reckon you'll still get good compression, assuming you can reflux 100% of vapor.
As for size, like the girls say, its not the size of the column that counts, its how you use it.
But yeah, you might only get 3 out of 4 according to current rules.
Are you a rule breaker? I hope so.

Are you sure you mean 1.5" dia. deflag, or 1.5" long?

Ya, 1.5" diameter x 8" long shotgun ....it has 7x 3/8" tubes inside the 1.5" housing (just a tad tight)
I'll hafta draw something up soon and post it for yall ....hard to imagine for sure, but definitely gonna look a little like stumpy

[LooyvilleLarry]

Long time stalker, first time poster. In the design phase of a Flute.

I've noticed that all of the designs I've seen, the output of the defleg to the product condenser is reduced. Is this somehow to create velocity going into the product condensor?

For me, the costs of the reducers are a bit more than just using 3" between the two - (3" column/Defleg and a 3" product condenser(shotgun) )

[Rum Bum]

If a flute had a single bubble plate, wouldn't that be the same as having a single thumper on a pot still?

And if using 2 plates like on stumpy was effective, would one plate do?


RB

[Rum Bum]

So instead of having 3 bubble caps that hold 1/2" of liquid, you could have one large one that holds 1 1/2" of liquid, and it would be an equivalent...and might also hold more flavor, as if it were a large thumper.

I'm asking these questions because I want to be able to make an efficient flute that's super easy to build.


RB

[emptyglass]

I'm asking these questions because I want to be able to make an efficient flute that's super easy to build.


RB

Aren't we all. Can't have the Porsche at a Camaro price. But if you find it, let me know...

I can't remember where it lives, but have a search for OD's laminar flow jobbie.

He encased the deflag in the top of a column and came out the side with vapor. There were some plumbing issues, but IIRC, he adresses them.

Either way, you won't keep that much liquid on a easy to make perf plate, you will have to go the more involved valve or bubble cap to do it.
Easy to make 5 plates with holes than one bubble cap plate.

[Barking Mad]

In the interest of space, (in my case the combined boiler & flute may be to tall for my work area) has anyone looked at having the boiler seperate, and mounting the flute on a thumper? (i.e the base chamber).

Back to reading....

Barking Mad

[rad14701]

In the interest of space, (in my case the combined boiler & flute may be to tall for my work area) has anyone looked at having the boiler seperate, and mounting the flute on a thumper? (i.e the base chamber).

Back to reading....

Barking Mad

How would the reflux from the bottom plate get back into the boiler...???

[Prairiepiss]

See if you can find old dogs evil twins build thread. Similar but different. And if I'm not mistaken some has built a plated one similar. Can't think of who it was right now?

[Barking Mad]

I was thinking a level pump.....The commercial stacks I've seen have the boiler to one side and the stack all on it's own..I wanted the ability to do a pot feed or a stack allowing a neutral. Not sure how the big guys do it, but I've seen the basic pot, fed into a plate on the side....

[LWTCS]

Guitar master built the other one.

[Prairiepiss]

I was thinking a level pump.....The commercial stacks I've seen have the boiler to one side and the stack all on it's own..I wanted the ability to do a pot feed or a stack allowing a neutral. Not sure how the big guys do it, but I've seen the basic pot, fed into a plate on the side....

I'm not real air I would rely on a pump. To many things to go wrong. And the only thing left is gravity. So now the bottom of your column tower needs to be above the liquid level in the pot. So in my case if I were to do it. I would only gain 6 to 8 inches. Give or take?

How many plates are you talking about for a neutral?

Thanks LW it was guitarmaster.

[guittarmaster]

So instead of having 3 bubble caps that hold 1/2" of liquid, you could have one large one that holds 1 1/2" of liquid, and it would be an equivalent...and might also hold more flavor, as if it were a large thumper.

I'm asking these questions because I want to be able to make an efficient flute that's super easy to build.


RB

i would think that it would behave more like a thumper as well. Check out the "thumper tower" by LWTC'S

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... ump+column

I was thinking a level pump.....The commercial stacks I've seen have the boiler to one side and the stack all on it's own..I wanted the ability to do a pot feed or a stack allowing a neutral. Not sure how the big guys do it, but I've seen the basic pot, fed into a plate on the side....

I'm not real air I would rely on a pump. To many things to go wrong. And the only thing left is gravity. So now the bottom of your column tower needs to be above the liquid level in the pot. So in my case if I were to do it. I would only gain 6 to 8 inches. Give or take?

How many plates are you talking about for a neutral?

Thanks LW it was guitarmaster.

and my twins can be found:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p6878179

It's a fun rig, but i wasn't getting the results I wanted to I"ve been working on my 2" plate experiments. I needed to have the reflux return to the first column, which i believe is why i wasn't getting the results i want. I"m planning on using the weir and single cap plates in them and a half booka slant to return half the return to the first column. we'll see after i finish the new plates.....

GM

[Rum Bum]

Good question. The difference lies in the higher liquid volume in comparison to larger stills, so more liquid volume equals more plate value with out flavor reduction. What I'm saying if vapor passes through 1/2" of liquid it only has a small amount of time for separation. If the vapor passes through a deeper pool of liquid 1 plate could equal 1,2,3 or more depending on liquid depth and space allowed for phase change.

I just reread your statement, and I want to clarify this for myself. Because retaining flavor (or more accurately condensing good flavors) is so important in a Flute, I want to understand this inside and out before I take it to the next level.

Concerning bubble plates: What I got from your statement is that it's better to have a small amount of liquid on each plate because it reduces the time the flavor has to separate itself from the ethanol. And the opposite of that: with a lot of liquid on the plates, it forces the rising alcohol to pass through more liquid, separating the valuable flavor from the alcohol.

Therefor concerning flavor: multiple plates with a small amount of liquid on them, are better, than a single plate with a lot of liquid on it (both examples having equal sums of liquid on their plates).


-RB

[Rum Bum]

That's what I was hoping to hear!

Less copper!


RB

[astronomical]

I'm having trouble shaping plates. Do most just use DWV pipe so they can just barely even sand 4"plates? I'm trying to shave down 4" to 3.85" to fit type K pipe. Its not really coming along well. Should I just buy DWV and stop dicking around trying to shave these down? I chucked them in a drillpress but it was taking forever and I didnt get a very clean result. My press has too much wobble to it.


Any hints on how to shave these down or how to proceed?

[WalkingWolf]

I used the drill press and it worked fine. Describe how you have it "attached" to the drill press.

Yes, short of a lathe, it will take time -- but not THAT much. I did mine one at a time and it only took a about an hour and a half.

I used 1/4" all thread ~ 8 inches long. Nut, then flat washer, then plate, flat washer and nut. Put as much of the all thread in the chuck as you can. You need the table up close to your work piece. A common mill bastard held steady and they were trimmed down in short order. Be sure to stop and check often. It is easy to overcut.

[bentstick]

+ 1 WW said, i used a 1/4" bolt 2 nuts to lock the plates to the bolt and kept it as close to the chuck as possible, bastard file and keep checking, the closer tolerance the better it will work, mine sounds like nails on a chalk board putting in( plate tree). It is not at all that hard or time consumeing, put Jams on and go to work. Have fun and enjoy!

[new moon]

talk bout a novel to read!! just finished this one!! ...was planning a pot still build for my first,..but thinking i might skip on to a flute,..idk...how good dose a flute do on a fruit brandy run???

[Rum Bum]

What decides the height of liquid on a plate, the overflow trap or the upward tube inside the bubble cap?


-RB

[olddog]

What decides the height of liquid on a plate, the overflow trap or the upward tube inside the bubble cap?

The height of the downcomer above the plate, the upward tube within the cap should be a fraction higher.


OD