Turbo Yeast? Have you tried it? why all the hate?

[coastershiner]

Ok, I have done a couple turbos, liqourquik vokapure. It works well, but recently have run 4 or 5 birdwatchers washes. That works too. Both have their flavours, neither I have found offensive. My question is what is the reason for the hate of turbos? Is it price? They cost way more, yet have a higher yield. Is it taste, they seem ok to me but im a noob. It sounds like eveyone has tried them and switched. Is it the quest for a truley pure neutral, cause I mix my vodka with lime and iced tea, so I dont notice the subtle flavor. What have you guys experienced with turbos?

[Prairiepiss]

It makes good fuel as it was intended for.

Quality over quantity.

[NB01]

Like PP says, it's for fuel.
It ferments up to ~25 percent, which stresses the yeast, who cause esters, which makes your product taste like crap.
Keep your wash/mash around 10-12 percent max for happy yeast. Best to aim for 8percent.

[coastershiner]

Then what do the commercial guys use? I would think they dont use bakers, but I may be wrong?

[coastershiner]

As I understand it, all yeast has a specific purpose, each can be used for other uses, but not as well. How can a yeast thzt is made for its liqour capacity not be right? Is bakers the best, or would a wine or beer yeast be better. Fleishmans has been good to me. Not argueing PP just intersted.

[Prairiepiss]

All yeasts are different. And they will all give you something different. Is bakers yeast the best? Probably not. Bit it is a good all around yeast. The best yeast is to one that works best for what you are making.

But turbo yeast isn't just yeast. It's mostly nutrients with a little yeast in there. And all those nutrients is what causes the problems. It's like giving a bunch of workers an unlimited supply of crack. And telling them to work until its gone. Sure you will get a bitch of work out of them. But how much of it will be worth a shit?

This has been discussed time and time again. And there is plenty of reading about different yeasts and what works for what.

[Prairiepiss]

Should have also added.

The other problem with turbos. They tell you to push the limits on ABV. Sure you can do this. But then you stress the yeast.

Make the yeasties happy. And they will piss alcohol and fart CO2.
Make them unhappy. And they will shit in your drink.

For a sugarhead neutral. EC-1118 or DADY yeast would probably be best choices. Both have little flavor input. EC-1118 is good for lower temps and DADY for higher temps. Both are high ABV tolerant. But again just because they are doesn't mean push their limits. They still get stressed. Which does give off flavors.

[Bushman]

I ferment in a small bathroom downstairs during the winter months, and not only can my wife and I tell the difference in taste but also the Turbo's give an off smell in the house. I am making my statement from 5 or so years ago when I first tried Turbo and also at the time thought most bottled whiskey was good. My taste buds have improved and I will say that there are still some good commercially bought alcohol but you pay for it!

[SoMo]

If in doubt of what you are reading, run a ferment exactly the same with bakers, DADY and the turbo and compare the end results. We can save you the trouble and continue to tell you or you can do this simple experiment and find out for yourself.

[Red Rim]

Funny, at a brewshop yesterday and the brew Meister, who was very knowledgeable on all things beer, was trying to push turbo's. It is hard to break it down to someone without giving away your particular hobby. Oddly though he was trying to tell me about esters later in the same conversation. Aaargh!

Keep the yeast happy, they keep you happy.
Why buy something that costs a ridiculous amount more only to make an inferior product.

Like Bushman said, you can smell the yeast working. I like the champagne aroma from my ec1118.

[myles]

There are probably 100's of different yeast strains.

Each strain does 1 thing very well and is ok for the others. I had started using ale yeasts for fermenting rum. I ferment at cool temperatures and they seem to work for me.

Turbo was designed for fuel which it does well. There are much better yeasts for fermenting drinking alcohol, just pick one that works with your recipe and fermentation style.

[Venture Rider]

My 2 cents. I bought turbo 24 when I got my still but I put off using it after reading all the negative comments. While waiting for my cornflakes wash to finish fermenting I figured I might as well run the turbo 24. I ran the wash (which smelled pretty nasty) and then mixed 1 tablespoon of baking soda per gallon with the low wines. I then shook it once a day for a week and did the spirit run. I came out smelling pretty neutral. My wife who has a sensitive nose tasted it and gave it the thumbs up.

[SoMo]

What was your SG, and quantity of yeast packet used in relation to gallons of wash that you made, also ferment temp as these turbos have a tendency to experience thermal run away?
I'm not judging or being a jerk just trying to get a better idea of how/what you did.

[hamshine]

turbos aint that bad... but they aint that good neighter. i like a sugar head wash because it kind of lends it self to runnin more likker. with a turbo it's just one shot and done. when you got that corn or what have you in the bucket with the yeast bed ur obligated to pour more water and sugar in there. its good to make likker every week if you got the time. I did some turbo's that didn't taste funny but then again they wasn't exactaly sippin hooch.

[Venture Rider]

I used 10 pounds sugar to water for 6 gallons of wash. I didn't bother to check SG. It fermented in a 72 degree room 4 days with a box fan blowing on it to keep it cool. I got a total of 3 quarts at 150 proof.

[aladan]

Ive always used Turbos, up until this year. Been at this for about 7 years now.

When using turbos, use distilled water only, dissolve sugar, get a SG reading, pitch yeast at 90F. I keep my fermentation temp at 77-82F at all times. I keep it in a refrigerator in summer and use a heater in winter. Using 48 hour turbos, at 24 hours I check SG and stop it at 11-12 %. Clear and strip. I do 2 batches and set my low-wines in carbon for two months. Rack, filter, charge and distill, air for a few days and dilute to 45%. It's smooth, tasteless with a Vanilla hint.


This last batch I just did, but changed the 2 month carbon rest to just using Baking Soda. Let in set for a week and distilled. Tasted just as good as my last carbon batch. (Actually my last 3 carbon batches)

I'm getting bored though, so today I started a WPOSW, looks good so far. Can't wait to see the difference. (I have samples of my last 4 batches) .

After this Im going to start doing AGs. As I said, getting bored with neutrals and liqueurs. Ready to make some whiskey.


The most important thing is patience! Took it a few years to get it in my thick skull. Quality over quantity and speed.

[shadylane]

I've used turbo's a couple times over the years.
Used less sugar than called for, and they all fermented dry.
To me the turbo ferments tasted like all the other sugar washes.
The only bad thing I could say about them, is the price.
That and hearing newbees get flamed for mentioning them.

[LG11]

Define turbo yeast precisely?
Not the brand but the actual organism strain and number. You will find turbo yeast DOES NOT EXIST. The same way a vacuum cleaner exists as a machine, but hoover is a brand of that machine, so when people say they have brought a new hoover and show you a dyson or other brand then that is incorrect, the correct version is they have brought a new vacuum cleaner of [insert brand]. So why does that nit pick matter?
Because if by turbo yeast you are referring to a yeast bred/designed to ferment at higher levels or faster, you would also need to specify which strain. Currently we have just over 1000 strains of yeast here at work that will ferment over 18% TOTAL alcohol, no strain will produce more than 14% Ethanol, just because you measure the alcohol content dosnt mean you are measuring the pure ethanol content. The easiest way to prove this is ferment ANYTHING with ANY yeast, and then run the product as it is through a Gas chromatograph , you will NEVER see Ethanol higher than 15%. I have seen 18%, but then we dried the Ethanol with sodium wire and discovered that actualy there is a type of water ethanol azeotrope that on a mid pola wax column shows as Ethaol, remove the water via sodium wire and calcium oxide and again it drops to 14%.
Yes you can ferment right upto 28% total alcohol using sake strains, but the chromatagraph shows that 12% is Ethanol and 16% 'other' alcohols.
Some 'turbo'strains were not bred for fuel but for sake and certain other chemical synths like isoamyl alcohol (my own area).
You can take normal baking yeast and turn it into a high tolerant strain in around 12 generations. This is one the experiments I have planned in the other thread so your more than welcome to follow it and do it yourself at home.

[Galeoturpis]

Wow! Seriously the most impressive post I have read on this site. Bye-bye my idea of a high gravity ferment. 14%. I had thought that higher alcohols were a function of how much nitrogen you put in the ferment. http://www.newworldwinemaker.com/pdf/aw ... ort_22.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
As I understood it, all the higher alcohols were breakdown products of amino acids (which are related to how much FAN is in the mix) so if you had 3G/l of yeast in the wash (@150 mg/l of nitrogen) you could make just ethanol but apparently all the yeast die and you just get a stuck ferment or you add more nitrogen and get higher alcohols. Is that correct or is that a pHD project in the making? Wow (again). Thankyou LG11.

[LG11]

You are pretty much correct, by stuck fermentation we are referring to a situation where basically the yeast are dead. Then we make the conditions more favorable and the spores etc that the yeast have set as the conditions became harsh begin to grow and the fermentation can continue IF the Ethanol is lower than 14%.
There is more at play here than first seems, There are many factors NEVER considered when fermenting, for example when a cell dies its common for it to lyze, this will release the lyzeing enzyme. The enzymes build up and are not broken down by yeast (some bacteria can use them but not normally found in fermentation), eventually you reach a yeast toxic situation. Also while we add nitrogen or have nitrogen sources available the yeast cant always use them, or they will use another pathway to pyruvate.
It gets incredibly complex for such a small beastie!
Anyone serious about brewing should get a copy of General Microbiology By Roger Y.Stainer (I recommend fifth ed) ISBN 0-333-41768-2 It has alot of great information on the chemical pathways of micro organisms, while much is about bacteria etc, the vast majority of the information also relates equally to yeast, there are many diagrams that show how nitrogen can be cleaved and used by the organisms, it also gives the chemical reactions involved. I have recently been given a sample of a ferment that didnt go well, apparently potassium nitrate was added as a nitrogen source. I sometimes get fed up arguing this point but lets be straight on this NITRATES CAN NOT under ANY situation be used by yeast, yes some bacteria will use nitrates (mostly anaerobes) but NO yeast can.
There is a form of high alcohol SAKE that uses bakers yeast, but for a nitrogen source they pee in the in the fermentation!!! The urea is broken down into ammonia and kills most competing organisms but the yeast go into overdrive on it for a short time, dont add ammonia directly though and dont try this at home unless you can test the product WITHOUT tasting it!
Higher alcohols also covers a large number of chemical compounds, a few are eventually turned into some amino acids, but many are not. Just for sh@t and giggles we have a 5 ltr bucket here that ferments and mostly produces acetone, its been going for around 3 years now with a bit maintenance. One day I am going to rip some the yeast apart and see what has happened to them, they were originally a strain of yeast used for champagne. we know there is no bacteria in the container as the growth media is highly selective for yeast and its unlikely bacteria could handle the conditions, is was something we did ages ago for a laugh but never got around to actually investigating it, I must add we never actually thought it would work!

[LG11]

I forgot to add that the paper has alot of wrong information, mainly because they are using out of date research in the references. I can see where the guy is coming from but one he is out of date and two he dosnt understand that some of his information is not applicable to anaerobic conditions.

[MDH]

I would just like to state that higher alcohols are not necessarily always a bad thing; they're crucial to the intense fruit aroma from many great single malts. Yes, in the short term, they add fire and pungency to spirit where it may not be wanted, but after 20 years, they will react well with compounds from the distillate and barrel.

Recently I have been taking low temperature yeasts, e.g. ale, lager etc and deliberately subjecting them to higher temperatures which as I understand can drastically increase higher alcohol production, however, I'm also allowing them at least one week under airlock for lactic acid fermentation. Hopefully in years from now, that results in lots of good esters.

[bburton]

Great read!!

Care to make a few comments re Sour-mash? Reusing the dregs from a previous turbo-yeast brew, in the next mash, (and the next? and the next? - when does it stop?)

[cuddy-boozer]

When i started the homebrew shop told me I could run turbo yeast and it was a good distillers option. This was before i found homedistiller forum and sure it converted to produce ethanol and I was in college. However; I have since converted to baker's yeast. Good all around yeast, cheaper and produces a fine end product.

[rad14701]

When i started the homebrew shop told me I could run turbo yeast and it was a good distillers option. This was before i found homedistiller forum and sure it converted to produce ethanol and I was in college. However; I have since converted to baker's yeast. Good all around yeast, cheaper and produces a fine end product.

Those brew shop guys, most of whom have never attempted distillation and know nothing about it, will say whatever it takes to further line their pockets with your hard earned money... Same goes for most sales-assholes as I tend to call them...!!! "Can I help you?" "No!" Never met a Radio Shack employee that could help me so I got to where I nipped it in the bud real quick, to the point where store managers would keep sales associates away from me with a stern warning... Unless I come to them to ask a specific question, that they should be able to answer, don't bother me... That goes for any and every store I walk into...

[bellybuster]

I used to have a home-brew store many years ago. (Bob's Brewtique) Turbo yeasts have an incredibly high markup on them, if I remember right it was in the ballpark of 400%. Most everything else, beer kits, wine kits and equipment was 30% to 100% markup. Grains were another huge profit maker.

[sungazer]

My recipe for the "Turbo" yeasts is to use the recommended sugar on the higher side, but I use a very diluted amount of the packet.

What I do is mix 39kg of Sugar with 100L of water to this I add two packets of the Turbo. It ferments out in about a week it does ferment hot for the first two days and I then rack it after a few days and then let it settle a week and then use as required. The wash does not foam up and produces a good clean distill at 90-95% ABV By only taking off this ABV you don't have any problems with taste or smell. I find very little heads and tails in the mix.

So the big difference to the recommended is I am using Two packets instead of Five.

I did make one batch and made it ferment cold by putting it in a cold environment. I nearly ended up with a stuck ferment and not a cleaner one. The running hot has not had an impact despite even the manufactures instructions.

[der wo]

I've used turbo's a couple times over the years.
Used less sugar than called for, and they all fermented dry.
To me the turbo ferments tasted like all the other sugar washes.
The only bad thing I could say about them, is the price.
That and hearing newbees get flamed for mentioning them.

"new distiller, first ferment, turbo yeast, bad result -> turbo yeast is bad"
or
"new distiller, first ferment, turbo yeast, bad result -> new distiller did some mistakes"?

I had bad results with my first turbo ferment. The second one was ok. I think my mistake was, not to stir in O² at the beginning.

[USACelt]

The turbos I have used all give good results as long as I don't try and get greedy and push above 12% abv -and 72ish degrees wash . Get greedy and go above that and My result is not so good.

[sungazer]

I am sorry USACelt and not really singling you out as it is one of the most repeated phrases I see on this forum "dont go above 10% or 12% 8% is the best) well the whole winery industry would be reading this and thinking these guys don't know what the are talking about. Not talking about Turbos here even though that is the title of the topic. But wine making yeasts such as the widely used EC 1118 and 2226. These are used by wine makers and the resultant ABV is normally 14-15% and in some of the white wines they are the finest tasting these days nearly with no flavors at all. There was no nasty flavors developed because of high ABV. The product can be drunk without any further process such as distilling to remove bade tastes.

If the aim of this forum is to become recognized in the industry and legalized then its time to leave the wives tales behind.Otherwise as a collective we could be considered a bunch of hicks who don't really know what they are doing. Time to listen to people like LG11