Legalizing Hobby Distilling in the US

tcowdrey · Post by **tcowdrey** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:13 am

I am not sure who originally brought up the kettle size but I have an idea it was probably me since it is in our proposal. The production limits are in the home made beer/wine laws, so my thoughts and the HDA's thoughts are that they will also be in the hobby distilling legislation. I may have initiated the tower size conversations and I got that idea not from experience, but from an ad I saw somewhere. Should have kept my mouth shut since I didn't know what I was talking about. Having said that, there is no way to know what will come out of any potential legislation. It sounds as if we are all coming around to the same conclusion that any legalization will be better than what we have now, however when it comes down to writing the specifics of the regulations, we will certainly want to have our say in the discussion. Thanks everyone for their support. If you have not joined HDA, please do so. Tom

Post by **Prairiepiss** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:29 pm

Looking at the TTB regs on how much one can produce. The federal laws are written so that beer and wine are separate. So if you go by that you can produce 200 gallons of each.

Now where I must have been getting cornfused is state laws. Where they are lumped together. In one section. Where it is usually written like. " beer/wine" where it could be construed as total.

This also brought up another point. What about the state laws? Once you get federal changed. The state laws will also need to be changed. Because many of them state distilling is not allowed. But home beer/wine making is.

planethax · Post by **planethax** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:32 pm

After Federal changes, the next step would then to go to the State level.

SoMo · Post by **SoMo** » Thu May 01, 2014 7:44 am

My home state has been proactive in these measures looking out for us before the Feds, Missouri. Why don't you guys contact the state gov at some level and use these changes as your baseline.
Someone some where had to be behind it at the upper levels of state government has anyone formally as HDA done that, might be a good contact for the lobbiest.

John Barleycorn · Post by **John Barleycorn** » Fri May 02, 2014 3:54 am

For anyone interested, the laws for each state laws can be reviewed at:

http://www.hobbydistillersassociation.org/?page_id=213" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The page only attempts to address specific sections of the state codes that:
(1) Restrict the manufacture of spirits
(2) Restrict ownership or possession of a still.

For those of you that are inclined to dig into your own state's laws and find something that may be missing, please let me know.

Regards,
--JB

woodshed · Post by **woodshed** » Sat May 03, 2014 7:37 pm

Over the last couple of weeks I have been in contact with many of those at HDA who are leading the effort.
And finally signed up.
I would never ask any of you to step out of the shadows although this is your best opportunity to do so.
If you know anybody who supports what you are doing and has nothing to lose PLEASE get them to sign up.
This senseless law can easily be changed with a loud enough shout.
Without your voice it may not happen.

I know many of you are thinking it's easy for me to say as a licensed distillery. Look at the majority of my previous posts and you will see I was not very easy on this movement when it first got rolling.

To his credit Varocketry brought me around. Nothing to gain on a personal level he went for it anyway.
Which is true of all those involved. Alright, some may benefit from increased sales but considering what they have put out for this to happen I see it as a way to cover expenses. Something we all do by working. Just at a different level than most are willing or capable of playing at.

I do not know Rick but applaud him for pushing this forward. This is the real deal for any doubters left out there.
Do what it takes to get a legitimate name at HDA. They are working for you.

Post by **Stainless dude** » Sat May 03, 2014 8:28 pm

woodshed wrote:Over the last couple of weeks I have been in contact with many of those at HDA who are leading the effort.
And finally signed up.
I would never ask any of you to step out of the shadows although this is your best opportunity to do so.
But if you know anybody who supports what you are doing and has nothing to lose PLEASE get them to sign up.
This senseless law can easily be changed with a loud enough shout.
Without your voice it may not happen.

I know many of you are thinking it's easy for me to say as a licensed distillery. Look at the majority of my previous posts and you will see I was not very easy on this movement when it first got rolling.

To his credit Varocketry brought me around. Nothing to gain on a personal level he went for it anyway.
Which is true of all those involved. Alright, some may benefit from increased sales but considering what they have put out for this to happen I see it as a way to cover expenses. Something we all do by working. Just at a different level than most are willing or capable of playing at.

I do not know Rick but applaud him for pushing this forward. This is the real deal for any doubters left out there.
Do what it takes to get a legitimate name at HDA. They are working for you.

Thank you Woodshed

woodshed · Post by **woodshed** » Sat May 03, 2014 8:36 pm

It was time. This NEEDS to happen.

Brewhaus · Post by **Brewhaus** » Sun May 04, 2014 6:33 am

Thank you for the comment, and for getting involved with the HDA, Woodshed!

wv_cooker · Post by **wv_cooker** » Sun May 04, 2014 1:40 pm

woodshed wrote:It was time. This NEEDS to happen.

Thanks Woodshed!

Post by **RandyMarshCT** » Mon May 05, 2014 4:38 am

Thanks so much woodshed! It means a lot coming from someone in the business. Especially someone who continues to regularly help the hobby community, even after going pro.

tcowdrey · Post by **tcowdrey** » Mon May 05, 2014 11:30 am

It only took 15 pages on the forum, 8751 views and 434 replies to get us to this point. I for one am proud to be part of the action to change the antiquated legislation and part of this group. I hope that many more will see that the HDA is working for your freedom to practice your hobby without fear of governmental interference. If we don't get it passed this year, we will basically have to start over next year with a new congress. Please help us get this done now.

Tom Cowdrey
Hobby Distiller's Association

Post by **FullySilenced** » Wed May 07, 2014 6:00 am

I wonder if it would be possible to get a short ad or maybe a public service announcement at the end of the moonshiners show... to get people to join up and support the Legalization effort

What about at the start of moonshiners... they illegal disclaimer .maybe the would add that legalization efforts are underway for those interested contact the Hobby Distillers Association at http://www.hobbydistillersassociation.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

What a crazy idea but i bet you would get a large number of people supporting... in no time...

because the interest is there...

FS

Post by **WhiteDevil504** » Wed May 07, 2014 6:03 am

I see where you're going FS but I am not sure if that's a show you'd want the movement associated with, at least IMHO. Those guys are a bunch of jack wagons....I'd think the home brewer and home wine groups would get you more of the demographic but I've also never been paid to think so take it with a salt block.

Post by **rad14701** » Wed May 07, 2014 6:07 am

FullySilenced wrote:I wonder if it would be possible to get a short ad or maybe a public service announcement at the end of the moonshiners show... to get people to join up and support the Legalization effort

What about at the start of moonshiners... they illegal disclaimer .maybe the would add that legalization efforts are underway for those interested contact the Hobby Distillers Association at http://www.hobbydistillersassociation.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

What a crazy idea but i bet you would get a large number of people supporting... in no time...

because the interest is there...

FS

Personally, I wouldn't think associating any efforts with that crazy Moonshiners show would be beneficial... I'd consider steering as clear of that flotsam as possible to be the best course of action... Too many of the viewers consider that show to be truthful and it's hard to get people to realize how fake it really is so being in any way, shape, or form, associated with the show would be counterproductive... Again, just my opinion...

Brewhaus · Post by **Brewhaus** » Wed May 07, 2014 6:08 am

They say that there is no such thing as bad advertising, but I think in this case it could hurt our cause as we are trying to show that the hobbyist is absolutely nothing like the backwoods moonshiner. If we create a link it could undermine that message, and that could create enough concern among some of our representatives to make them vote against legalization.

Post by **FullySilenced** » Wed May 07, 2014 6:10 am

I was just looking at exposure nothing else... get it out there ... those interested will those who aren't won't ...

Yeah I think the show is skewed to showmanship and is mostly inaccurate.... way to much shirtless overall wearing...and so forth...

Maybe something on PBS or Public Broadcast Radio? Heck even the Mother Earth News Magazine they like this kinda thing the DIY stuff..... and have covered distilling before for fuel

wv_cooker · Post by **wv_cooker** » Wed May 07, 2014 6:42 am

Though the show has brought a lot of interest to the hobby I have to totally agree with Rad on this one. Bringing attention to the movement through a show that is ranting Illegal would be detrimental in the eyes of our politicians. I believe it would do more harm than any good by being anywhere near the show. Fun to laugh at but nothing to bring anywhere near something this serious. My 2 cents!

Post by **RandyMarshCT** » Wed May 07, 2014 7:30 am

WhiteDevil504 wrote: I'd think the home brewer and home wine groups would get you more of the demographic

I agree... but trying to pitch this idea on the home brewing forums has just about gotten me crucified. They are very adamant about forbidding distillation discussion. They lock threads up on me, erase my posts, block my signatures, and threaten to ban me. If you guys want to get really worked up, go to the HB forums (AHA, HBT, etc.) and search for distilling. You'll see tons of threads on freeze-jacking and mountains of false info. BAD false info. It's downright cringe-inducing. I have gained a few followers, but the battle is intense. I know they're the best market for attention, but my best progress has been made by going to beer festivals to hand out fliers. I've gotten the best reception from people who work at micro-breweries. Even the rep from Stone brewing at the Newport Craft Beer festival took a bunch of info back to share with his co-workers. Some breweries let us put piles of fliers right on their tables.... but these festivals are for beer drinkers mostly, not brewers. It's not hitting the right market.

My LHBS (Craft Brew's Supplies in Wyoming, RI) has been extremely supportive and let me leave tons of info, but they are just 1 small store. I'll be contacting the liquor stores and breweries in my area to see if they'll allow me to post some information. Anyone have any other ideas? A friend mentioned the cigar community since they are generally whiskey drinkers with some expendable income, but I'm not sure what the best way to reach them is. Also, apparently there are a decent amount of people into herbalism (not weed people... the other herbs) that like to make tinctures and such that could benefit from this action. I'm completely unfamiliar with that community, but would pursue a lead if anyone has one.

Brewhaus · Post by **Brewhaus** » Wed May 07, 2014 7:34 am

My only concern with liquor stores is that they could see this as a direct threat, and run to their distributors, which could create an extra bump in the road for us. Taking the numbers from NZ pre and post legalization would prove that their fears are likely unfounded, but they are still fears, and they would cause a knee-jerk reaction that could cause us some grief.

woodshed · Post by **woodshed** » Wed May 07, 2014 12:24 pm

In our little mountain town we are fortunate to have 2 established craft breweries and another set to open in a week or two. That's a lot of local beer for a town of around 1,800.
Two of these have been very receptive to fliers and brochures. The other has declined due to a personal issue between the owner and myself. Which is unfortunate for the cause.
Starting Memorial weekend virtually every place to park a butt for a few nights will be full swelling our population tenfold. Great opportunity to reach people from many places who may not come across this info at home.
If you live in a tourist town and would like to help the movement yet not join up please take a little time and hit up store owners you feel might be receptive. Next up for me are the outdoor shops, hardware stores, rafting and other outdoor adventure services. I have already been working on a few guide friends (rafting, fishing, hunting etc..) to see if they can work it into conversation as they are working. As a young man I spent some time working as a flyfishing and raft guide. This topic is easy to interject into the day . A few have spoke of joining HDA in support.

Rick, I am in constant contact with many liquor store owners. I'll check their stance on this.

Post by **Prairiepiss** » Wed May 07, 2014 12:36 pm

Brewhaus wrote:My only concern with liquor stores is that they could see this as a direct threat, and run to their distributors, which could create an extra bump in the road for us. Taking the numbers from NZ pre and post legalization would prove that their fears are likely unfounded, but they are still fears, and they would cause a knee-jerk reaction that could cause us some grief.

Point out how many craft beers there are on their shelves. And ask them how many were there 5 10 years ago? And let them know that craft movement was mostly sparked by homebrewers. So The same would happen with craft distilleries. Which means more products for them to sell. And local products would be good business.

Brewhaus · Post by **Brewhaus** » Wed May 07, 2014 12:37 pm

Thanks, Woodshed. Let us know how they feel toward this. Maybe we'll be lucky and my assumptions will be incorrect.

woodshed · Post by **woodshed** » Wed May 07, 2014 12:41 pm

Prairiepiss wrote:
Brewhaus wrote:My only concern with liquor stores is that they could see this as a direct threat, and run to their distributors, which could create an extra bump in the road for us. Taking the numbers from NZ pre and post legalization would prove that their fears are likely unfounded, but they are still fears, and they would cause a knee-jerk reaction that could cause us some grief.
Point out how many craft beers there are on their shelves. And ask them how many were there 5 10 years ago? And let them know that craft movement was mostly sparked by homebrewers. So The same would happen with craft distilleries. Which means more products for them to sell. And local products would be good business.

I'm thinking the same Piss and was getting ready to post almost the same thing then I saw you had posted and as I always do I stopped to check in on what Mr. P had to say.

Post by **varocketry** » Thu May 08, 2014 6:53 pm

That argument can be applied in Spades in the US showcasing the explosion in craft brewing in the years following hobby beer making legalization. There's been no decrease in tax revenue either, quite the opposite.

As we begin to finalize a SCRIPT for a Crowdsourcing video appeal, We still need to identify and speak with craft distillers who learned their craft in the garage, not the classroom. I'd appreciate a private PM with a suggestion of distilleries/distillers I might contact.

tcowdrey · Post by **tcowdrey** » Fri May 09, 2014 5:00 am

On the first news release, Tom Hogue put his name, phone number and date on the release. On this page, there is nothing, so we have no way to know when it came out. To me this looks like a laundry list of offenses that one "might" be charged with if convicted of distilling alcohol without a permit. If you have a brand new still never even taken out of the box, they have the right to confiscate it if you don't have it registered - I called the TTB way back last fall and asked how to do that and was told to send them the information on the still and its intended use, such as distilling water, and they would register it in my name. They have your name and address but it is registered.

At the other end of the scale, you are caught with an 18 wheeler backed up to your barn slam full of untaxed alcohol you just produced in your beautiful new 250 gallon copper still. Then the laws listed down the page start to kick in. This release certainly serves several purposes, 1) it makes the federal statues quite clear concerning the production of non-permitted and untaxed alcohol, and 2) it serves as notice that the TTB has promulgated the laws. What we don't know like Piss said, is where they intend to go from here and when.

Tom

Brewhaus · Post by **Brewhaus** » Sat May 17, 2014 7:54 am

Check out the Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow)- they have an article about the legalization movement and a poll on their homepage asking people whether or not the government should end the ban on home distilling. Please take a second to go to their website to cast your vote!

Post by **Bushman** » Sat May 17, 2014 8:03 am

Not sure what a yes or no survey will accomplish but went ahead and voted!

Brewhaus · Post by **Brewhaus** » Sat May 17, 2014 8:14 am

I don't know that it will accomplish anything, but a YES result to the poll is definitely better than a NO result. If our legislators have any reason to believe that people in general are against such a change then it will, at the very least, make our job more difficult.

Post by **varocketry** » Sat May 17, 2014 10:17 am

Meyer: Why can't we distill in our homes?
Jeremy Meyer segment is in the Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_25 ... -our-homes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow).

The survey is on the homepage, bottom left column: (http://www.denverpost.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow)
The Denver Post homepage they have a vote on whether or not the ban on home distilling should end.

Right now the vote is overwhelmingly yes (76%). I think that this needs a very quick newsletter- before the vote is no longer online.

Home Distiller

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