Can you get sick from the gases given off during ferment?

[Dr. Smooth]

Lately, I've been getting a lump in my throat while my mash is fermenting and when I'm running it. Are the gases toxic to breath? I never get this from brewing beer or wine...could it be a reaction to the chemicals in turbo yeast?

[ScottishBoy]

Under ideal circumstances, the only gas given off in great quantities is CO2. There are trace gases and some of these have been known to cause a tickle or two, but CO2 will often cause an odd sensation in the back of the throat, sort of like a dry patch. You mentioned that you are using Turbo yeasts, which are driven harder and faster and produce more off flavors, probabaly by producing more off gases than regular yeast. Speed kills.

The problem is that you can sense this. If you are being exposed to high concentrations of CO2 then you may be in an enclosed area, which could build up CO2 to unhealthy levels. What is the size of the room you are fermenting in and how much do you have fermenting?

I will spare you the lecture on turbos except to say that they are overfed basic yeast and you may wish to stop using them. Your wash will taste much better and your product will be much better for it. Just for the fun of it, try running your exact same batch but pitch regular yeast instead of Turbo and see if the same result occurs.

[Caprimulgus]

As the noob I am, I have only done two turbo washes and they where so evil while fermenting thats the main reason I found this forum in the first place. The house stank. And I just had this "uncomfortable" feeling in my sinuses and throat.

My 4 DWWG so far, have had this fresh smell of apples insted. Stiring and smelling it, was a treat.

[maheel]

http://www.brewsnews.com.au/2010/02/death-by-beer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

co2 can kill, and has in breweries

i once stuck my head in the fermentor to get a good smell and it made me dizzy.

[Dr. Smooth]

Sounds like it's the turbo. I get a wewird feeling in my sinus and back of throat just like you said. I also had a fungal infection on my tongue last year, but it went away, but it was prolly also from higher than normal yeast concentrations in the air. I have my pail in the next room(150 sq ft) with the door closed. it's a 76 l pail. When it's really going, I get a ringing in my ears too. Anyway, it all started when I started using turbo, so between what you say and my own experience, I'd say that's exactly whats wrong.

So when I tried pitching regular champagne yeast to a mash at 15% PAV, I works great in almost the same time and I don't need nutrient. If I try that with sugar wash, it won't start unless I add nutrient. (as far as I understand, using nutrient is the same as using turbo right?) Is there anything less toxic that I can use for nutrient? Can I get a 15% PAV sugar wash to ferment with just a champagne yeast and no nutrient?

Also, I already asked this on another board, but haven't gotten a reply yet though, so I may as well ask here too. Are the chems in turbo toxic to consume. I made some rootbeer with it and it gave me the same funny feeling in my throat and ringing in my ears. My friend said people use it for wine, so I don't know fer sure. plus side is it carbs rootbeer in 1 day flat(no oxy moron intended, lol)

[Dr. Smooth]

PS, I'm using a still spirits turbo air still(easy still knock off), are the gases given off during distillation toxic? Are they cumbustable? The retailer said they are built to not be dangerous and that the vapor is not high enough of a concentration to be flamable, but I'm not sure that she's that farmiliar with it, So I thought I'd ask on here, just to make sure and see what people say.

Should I do it on my porch instead of inside?

[Smokehouse Shiner]

(as far as I understand, using nutrient is the same as using turbo right?)

Using nutrient is not the same as using turboyeast. All yeast need nutrients to thrive, reproduce, and do what they do best, make alcohol. I believe(I have never used turbo) the difference is most turbos come pre packaged with nutrients or a little seperate pack of nurtient to pitch with the yeast. Your standard champagne, beer or, bakers yeast do not so we have to add our own nutrients to give them what they need to survive. The champagne yeast works in a mash(im assuming you mean a grain mash) because the grain provides the nutrients.

Can I get a 15% PAV sugar wash to ferment with just a champagne yeast and no nutrient?

Probably not. There are lots of options for nutrients, just do a search on yeast nutrients. BTW theres nothing toxic about the nutrients in your turbo. The yeast is the problem.

Are the chems in turbo toxic to consume

There are toxic chemicals produced by any yeast we use. The main one being, ETHANOL! We cant forget that the cleanest, purest alcohol in the world is still a deadly poison, if not treated with respect. As for all the other nasties produced during the process, proper distillation can seperate the majority of them from what were gonna drink. Note I said Proper distillation. Make sure youve done your recearch on foreshots, cuts, etc.. This is just another nail in the coffin for turbo yeasts. Forget they exist. Chamagne yeast works just fine for rootbeer. Better yet get a corny keg and and a co2 setup, youll never look back to bottling. EDIT!!! Damn man I did this whole write up on your yeast situation and just as I was posting it you posted that your using an airstill and dont know if the vapors produced durring distillation are flamable. I wasn't gonna say this but you need to do ALOT more reading on this site before you even think about firing up a still again. Just in case you dont. YES the vapors produced during distillation are extremely flamable and explosive!!!! And if their are gasses being given off your still then something is VERY wrong!!!! Ive heard Rubber Duck tell several people to do at least 40 solid hours of reading on this site before ever cosidering starting a wash and I believe thats exactly what you should do. Until you do you dont have enough knowledge to do this safely, period.

[Dr. Smooth]

Dude, I've been doing it for a year now and have done about 50 batches so far. I thoroughly researched the fact page and have referred about 20 other people to it as well. I know all about throwing away the first 50 ml and, neutrals and tails. I think you're misreading what I asked and jumping to wild conclusions. I was saying that my retailer said this machine is safe to use indoors. I wasn't really saying that gases are being given off, but instead was asking if there are any gases that are given off. When I run it, after about the first half hour, the room smells like bread is being made, but I don't mean that it's a gas, more like the smell of the wort cooking in the kettle. On an easy still, the lid is detachable, unlike regular kettles that at all one piece up to the neck. So all I really wanted to know without the useless speculative insinuations, was is it safe to do inside like my retailer suggested, or should I do it on my porch instead? perhaps I should ask someone who is familiar with an easy still, kuz obviously you are not.

BTW, I've only just reiterated what I've already clearly said the first time around. Maybe you should read posts better before you make rude insinuations. Just a thought...PEACE !!!

[Dr. Smooth]

PS, I appreciate everyones answers

[Smokehouse Shiner]

are the gases given off during distillation toxic?

I wasn't really saying that gases are being given off, but instead was asking if there are any gases that are given off

I will reiterate my point that if you dont already know the answers to these questions then you quite obviously have NOT done your homework. Also if you had done the proper research then you would already know that that "still" you are using is ineffective to say the very least. Proper cuts cannot be made so these "toxic chemicals" you are asking about have in fact made their way into the 50 batches of hooch youve made(and drank) over the last year. Youve asked some very basic questions which implys that you dont much about the basic process of distilling alcohol. I gave you honest answers and some good advice to do more research because I felt you needed it. But what the hell do I know, right? I refuse to get into a flame war, so dont worry I wont answer anymore of your posts. Enjoy your jailhouse hooch and the hangovers that come with it and try not to blow up your house for the sake of those around you.

[Dr. Smooth]

Where can I buy a corny keg? Do I need to go to a pressurized gas outlet, or can I get them at a brew store? I've never seen one in my local brew store, but it's a small outlet.

[Dr. Smooth]

I'm not starting a flame war either. 1st off, I haven't even heard anybody really mention easy stills on here...it's definitely not on the fact page(only basic pot still is close). Second, if they're dangerous, then why do they sell them? It says in the instruction manual, discard 1st 50 ml, let run till 750 ml or till distillate gets oily. you'll get 750 ml of 70-80%, filter, water down add essence and done. How is that less safe than any other pot still? The "Toxic Chems" I mentioned are in the ferment process(which was the only time I mentioned them...I never said there was anything wrong with my finished product, infact the one thing my friends and I noticed was that there's NO hangover, because I'm pretty anal about using the least amount of tails possible, even with whiskey, I try to go for just the nuetrals and I run it through a britta water filter). It sounds to me like you're saying that my still is crap, which maybe pot stills are crap, but that has nothing to do with my intelligence. If I owned a reflux, then maybe I could make better cuts...but I don't. I own this still. And you still after all this haven't answered the question as to if my retailer was right in saying that it's safe to use indoors.

Point being, I'll ask yet a third time...should I do it on my porch? It's not like I'm saying that I'm feeling poisoned by a gas when I'm running the still. My retailer said it was designed for kitchen use and I've been meaning to ask for a while now and am doing so now, to double check. That's what this site is for, right?

[Dnderhead]

1,those stills are just to small to make good cuts..2)unless altered they contain plastics. 3) so does your filter,,, ethanol can deteriorate plastics
so you could be drinking them. 4) there should be no vapors exiting your still. and all that is on here.........

[Dr. Smooth]

1,those stills are just to small to make good cuts..2)unless altered they contain plastics. 3) so does your filter,,, ethanol can deteriorate plastics
so you could be drinking them. 4) there should be no vapors exiting your still. and all that is on here.........

Like I said, I know this aint the best still, but it's what I got. This guy is talking to me like I'm an idiot and making accusations. He doesn't know me or what I've studied fer shit. He's rude to call me a liar. that's what pissed me off. All I asked was if my still was safe to use indoors and I wanted to know if it does infact release vapours. "there should be no vapors exiting your still." answers my question. That's all he had to say, no point in acting like a condescending douche. How do you expect people to come here for advice or take anything you guys say seriously, with somebody like that having that lousy attitude? As far as my safety or approach, I did what the fucking manual said to do(to a T), so there should be no argument that I'm doing it wrong or not reading enough, kuz I followed the instructions. The guy's obviously got a superiority complex and should use more tact when speaking to people or just stfu. If I was an idiot, I wouldn't be here asking about this stuff in the first place.

So lets recap...I ask if there are any dangerous vapors given off and if I should use outside, he says your question shows you shouldn't be running yer still...that's a tad over exaggerated don't you think? BTW if you can find anything on the parent sitehttp://homedistiller.org/static_menu.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow that specifically says there shouldn't be any vapour exiting your still, I'll apologise. I just spent the last 2 hours reading over the intro and distilling sub cats and I couldn't find that anywhere, which is why I asked in the first place, otherwise I would already know and not need to ask.

I think you'll find I'm a pretty smart person and I'm pretty picky about paying attention to detail. I'm a carpenter by trade, so it's prettywell imbedded in my thinking. I appreciate any help you guys give and am glad to take advice when appropriate, just don't talk down to me is all or make rude assumptions based on a few paragraphs. I've been on hereabout once a week since january and on various other sites, so I'm not the irresponsible type.

Anyway, moving on... I appreciate yer help dunderhead

[Smokehouse Shiner]

Ok I said I was not going to have a flame war and I'm not. Thus I'm going to refrain from the defensive personal attacks that DR Smooth here has resorted to. Just going to clarify a few points about his statements that might mislead anyone reading this who might actually be trying to learn something.

I haven't even heard anybody really mention easy stills on here

Theres an entire thread on easy stills in the New Distiller Reading Lounge. Any new distiller doing research on distilling should start by reading every thread in this section after reading the parent site several times. It explains better operation of air stills and how to modify them to make them safer.

if they're dangerous, then why do they sell them?

The same reason people sell fireworks, guns, and crystal meth. To make money. Doesn't mean they're safe.

The "Toxic Chems" I mentioned are in the ferment process(which was the only time I mentioned them...I never said there was anything wrong with my finished product,

Every thing that comes out as distillate was in the wash when we put it in the still. Thus if there were any toxic chemicals in your wash(which there shouldn't be) then theres a good chance they will end up in the finished product.

my friends and I noticed was that there's NO hangover, because I'm pretty anal about using the least amount of tails possible

Most of the compounds responsible for hangovers is in the HEADS of the run not the tails.You also have to make a heads cut, not just throw away the first 50mils.

It sounds to me like you're saying that my still is crap, which maybe pot stills are crap, but that has nothing to do with my intelligence. If I owned a reflux, then maybe I could make better cuts...but I don't. I own this still

I also run a pot still. Its very possible to make good cuts with a well built pot still.

All I asked was if my still was safe to use indoors and I wanted to know if it does infact release vapours. "there should be no vapors exiting your still." answers my question.

Dnderhead stated that there SHOULD be no vapors exiting the still. He did not say that there WEREN'T any vapors exiting said still. He has no way of knowing that. And I'm sure he will back me up on that point. Only the operator of said still could know that. And anyone whose going to run a still should know how to detect leaks of these vapors which are in fact highly flamable for safteys sake.

no point in acting like a condescending douche

Sticks and Stones...

As far as my safety or approach, I did what the fucking manual said to do(to a T)

You can't run a still by an instruction manual.

I ask if there are any dangerous vapors given off and if I should use outside, he says your question shows you shouldn't be running yer still...

Self explanatory.

I appreciate any help you guys give and am glad to take advice when appropriate,

I'm not the irresponsible type

I beg to differ.

[Dr. Smooth]

Ok I said I was not going to have a flame war and I'm not. Thus I'm going to refrain from the defensive personal attacks that DR Smooth here has resorted to. Just going to clarify a few points about his statements that might mislead anyone reading this who might actually be trying to learn something.

I haven't even heard anybody really mention easy stills on here

Theres an entire thread on easy stills in the New Distiller Reading Lounge. Any new distiller doing research on distilling should start by reading every thread in this section after reading the parent site several times. It explains better operation of air stills and how to modify them to make them safer.

if they're dangerous, then why do they sell them?

The same reason people sell fireworks, guns, and crystal meth. To make money. Doesn't mean they're safe.

The "Toxic Chems" I mentioned are in the ferment process(which was the only time I mentioned them...I never said there was anything wrong with my finished product,

Every thing that comes out as distillate was in the wash when we put it in the still. Thus if there were any toxic chemicals in your wash(which there shouldn't be) then theres a good chance they will end up in the finished product.

my friends and I noticed was that there's NO hangover, because I'm pretty anal about using the least amount of tails possible

Most of the compounds responsible for hangovers is in the HEADS of the run not the tails.You also have to make a heads cut, not just throw away the first 50mils.

It sounds to me like you're saying that my still is crap, which maybe pot stills are crap, but that has nothing to do with my intelligence. If I owned a reflux, then maybe I could make better cuts...but I don't. I own this still

I also run a pot still. Its very possible to make good cuts with a well built pot still.

All I asked was if my still was safe to use indoors and I wanted to know if it does infact release vapours. "there should be no vapors exiting your still." answers my question.

Dnderhead stated that there SHOULD be no vapors exiting the still. He did not say that there WEREN'T any vapors exiting said still. He has no way of knowing that. And I'm sure he will back me up on that point. Only the operator of said still could know that. And anyone whose going to run a still should know how to detect leaks of these vapors which are in fact highly flamable for safteys sake.

no point in acting like a condescending douche

Sticks and Stones...

As far as my safety or approach, I did what the fucking manual said to do(to a T)

You can't run a still by an instruction manual.

I ask if there are any dangerous vapors given off and if I should use outside, he says your question shows you shouldn't be running yer still...

Self explanatory.

I appreciate any help you guys give and am glad to take advice when appropriate,

I'm not the irresponsible type

I beg to differ.

I wasn't talking about leaks...I was talking about the distillate in the collection jar. you're making a mountain out of a molehill and insulting my intelligence and who the fuck are you to judge me and say I'm irresponsible. Go fuck yerself buddy. you keep speculating and you're wrong. I throw out the fucking heads, that's why anything in between is neutral dumbass. Maybe you need to read up yerself. Anyway, I'm tired of arguing with you, so piss off. Go to facebook if you wanna troll people. PS, I like yer corny keg idea though.

[Smokehouse Shiner]

[Kentucky shinner]

Ok smooth, you need to check your language or you will get kicked if your not careful. I am not a mod. or a mentor so I don't matter to me. i'm just saying I have seen it before... Remember the rules we live by. This was all meant I believe as helpful criticism.
Good Luck

[Dr. Smooth]

Ok smooth, you need to check your language or you will get kicked if your not careful. I am not a mod. or a mentor so I don't matter to me. i'm just saying I have seen it before... Remember the rules we live by. This was all meant I believe as helpful criticism.
Good Luck

Sorry man, the guy was getting on my nerves with his snotty knowit all attitude, but your right. It feels like he's trying to insult me on purpose. But I'll just let it go. Anyway, I've read the instructions for my still, I've asked the retailer questions about it's safety and I've researched it as much as possible, there were just a few questions that I wanted feedback on because the still spirits manual and site has pretty narrow explanations. That's why I'm asking. You guys gotta realize that I'm not gonna read every topic on here atleast right away, so I may end up asking a direct question before I end up reading a forum that answers it. Most people that get these easy stills prolly don't even know about this site and just READ THE MANUAL. So the fact that I'm coming on here in the first place to double check, should show that I'm tryna be responsible. If anyone thinks I need advice then please just talk to me like an adult and say your point without making inappropriate insinuations.

I really like this hobby and I wanna learn as much about it as I can, which is harder to do when people are tryna intimidate you. That aside, thanx for the help everyone.

[theholymackerel]

Ok, Dr Smooth, I'll talk to you plainly and expect you to act like an adult...

1) No more obscenities.

2) No more personal attacks.

3) No more passive aggressive rants.

I strongly suggest ya read the forum rules.

Future breaches of our rules will land ya in trouble... thankyou for understandin'.

[athiril]

twice I have fermented in my room with 2 x 2 litre milk bottles resting against the side case of my computer (was quite cold here at the time) to regulate temp (hence in my room) with bakers yeast.

Twice I got quite sick within a week, like a flu or cold that took forever to go away.

[The Baker]

Ok smooth, you need to check your language or you will get kicked if your not careful. I am not a mod. or a mentor so I don't matter to me. i'm just saying I have seen it before... Remember the rules we live by. This was all meant I believe as helpful criticism.
Good Luck

I'm with you,K.S.

They come and they go.

[Smokehouse Shiner]

Just when I thought this thread was dead............

[rad14701]

twice I have fermented in my room with 2 x 2 litre milk bottles resting against the side case of my computer (was quite cold here at the time) to regulate temp (hence in my room) with bakers yeast.

Twice I got quite sick within a week, like a flu or cold that took forever to go away.

It sounds like you may have an allergy that you aren't aware of... I highly doubt that it's CO2 that you are allergic to, but it could be the yeast... Or, perish the thought, the alcohol fumes...

[Smokehouse Shiner]

Ole boys spent many a night sleeping next to 4x 50 gallon ferments in a closed up shack. Prolly wadn't too wise but them ole boys made it just fine. Recon if they couldn't handle layin next to a barrel they'd a took up needlepoint and left the likker to the men. So I'm tole.

[LWTCS]

Recon if they couldn't handle layin next to a barrel they'd a took up needlepoint and left the likker to the men.

Well African violets prolly just love it. The colors are sooo fabulous

[Smokehouse Shiner]

Well African violets prolly just love it. The colors are sooo fabulous

ROTMFFLMMFAOWABBTSJUDTRKSSA!!

[LWTCS]

ROTMFFLMMFAOWABBTSJUDTRKSSA!!

Ok lets have it

[athiril]

twice I have fermented in my room with 2 x 2 litre milk bottles resting against the side case of my computer (was quite cold here at the time) to regulate temp (hence in my room) with bakers yeast.

Twice I got quite sick within a week, like a flu or cold that took forever to go away.

It sounds like you may have an allergy that you aren't aware of... I highly doubt that it's CO2 that you are allergic to, but it could be the yeast... Or, perish the thought, the alcohol fumes...

I dont think I have any. A room full of CO2 definately wouldnt have been pleasent, I can't remember the status of my window.. anyway its not the alcohol. It's also possible to attract many bacteria..

But I have done this sort of thing once years ago in my room with wine yeast looking to make fuel and have been fine. The diference here seems to be the yeast used.. who knows. I'm not allergic to the yeast, since I bake bread and make pizza dough often.

[Ayay]

Dr. Smooth, an air still is a cow's ear. There's no way to transform it into silk an purses, yet silk an purses are out there doin what they do.
Your first advisor here was concerned that you were smellin leaks, he was concerned for you on our behalf. 50 Runs in a year is my average too without serious accident (except a close call when a bottle of heads cracked open an spilled). When I taste what I was producin at 50 runs I'm amazed at how nieeve I was back then.

Back to the beginning, turbo yeasts and airstills are a recipe for turning desire into money for the unscrupulious. The turbo/airstill recipe accounts for many would-be stillers quitting in disgust. Conspiracy I say...so don't quit and rise above it!

The fumes given off when fermentin a turbo are easily fixed by buyin 'turbo-clar' an throwin it in the wash if it's not already included in the turbo package. The stink comin from the product of a turbo/airstill combo are easily fixed by buyin another filter system and lots of activated carbon.

Your observation that the fizz comin off the turbo wash will carry airborne yeasts is an eyeopener. Super-active yeasts surely must be kept out of the lungs an sinusses. Co2 is only a worry if you stick your head into the fermenter and breathe hard. Leaks are a worry (as you know) cos they burn really fast.

Reading here the answer will become clear...the tried an true recipes are the best and they are the cheapest an most effective. Stills vary from simple pot to the superdooper LM/VM combo an beyond. Airstill is none of these, it pretends to be one an is niether.