NEW FIRST

[VPOWER]

Hi, just designed my first still.. and am in the process of buildin the reflux tower. And advice on the design?? 3" copper pipe for the tower

PS i appologize fo the bad quality...

[Bushman]

Hard to tell what you have going on but in my opinion it is way over designed. It looks like you are trying to design a reflux still, so I would start in that section of the still designs and re-think your process. You will save a lot of money and have a more efficient design.

[Odin]

Great that you design your own still, but I am with Bushman here. What do you want to make, what do you want to achieve? I think these are the questions to start with. If we know that, somebody can give you feedback that might help you. And yes ... I have seen less complicated designs for both whiskey/brandy making and vodka/neutrals distillation.

Odin.

[Dnderhead]

i'm not into designing reflux stills but it appears to be a Cooling Management this is older design.
also the lower condenser is a no no..

[Odin]

Looking more closely at it, it does look like a CM. With two mantels around the column and take off above. And a return valve to the boiler after the product condensor, right? My CM is simpler. No water mantel, but thru tubing. And no return from product take off to boiler.

[ozone39]

Be fun to build.......Those stainless steel three way valves are not cheap....I just bought one for my next build...

[VPOWER]

yes it is a CM,with needle valves, is there an advantage to having a return?.... what im trying to make is mostly vodka smooooth smooth vodka, but i will experiment with most spirits eventually... and i already have bough the materials for the tower.... except the condenser not sure what to go with, maybe a shotgun... and you say a lower condenser is a nono.... i agree... but the solution to that is a 45 degree to the tower or higher then the tower?.....
thanks in advance...

[Usge]

You want the heat to stratify in the column (warmer/hotter at the bottom, cooler at the top) so that the corresponding volatiles will line up accordingly by temperature. This is why you put the coil/reflux condenser only at the top....with heat coming from the bottom. Adding another condenser midway...only breaks up what you are trying to achieve heat wise and is entirely counter productive.

With the cooling at the top acting as a gate/through...allowing only those portions of a certain temp to pass, the balance between heat (vapor speed going up) and cooling at the top, will produce your reflux ratio — the ratio of that portion of distillate condesned at the top which is returned back down the column as reflux, vs what you are taking off as product.

The main thing you want here, regardless of which type of reflux/head you wish to use, is that the fractioning column is long enough and packed properly. For making vodka, I would say 42-46" of "packing" length would be a good starting point (that's just packing, the reflux/head or any other take off would be above/beyond that) for a 2" column. As far as head designs, CM is good, but requires careful control of the heat source and refluxing condenser. You might consider VM designs also...which seem (from all accounts) to be much easier to operate, simple to build, and also function much like CM does in so far as increasingly compressing tails until it just stops — not to mention there are numerous builds to base yours off of.

[Dnderhead]

i mite add the cm is very dependent on reflux temperature. not only the amount of water but the temperature as well,if using well with pump you will need a regulator (or should have) if recirculating water.you will have to keep increasing the amount of water as the water temperature increases.

[Coaster]

@ VPOWER,

If your goal is to produce a neutral (Vodka) product a properly designed Vapor Management (VM) reflux column still is hard to beat and is a lot less complicated than your proposed design. The Forum has numerous Vapor Management (VM) reflux column still threads – suggest reviewing these VM Forum threads before proceeding with your proposed design.

Regards,
Coaster

[emptyglass]

My old man used to say "Why learn from your mistakes, when you can learn from the mistakes of others?"

Don't redesign the wheel, when theres heaps of good designs right here. Time spent here saves you time re-making your still later.

If you want to make some hooch soon, knock up a boka (slant plate) while you decide what to long term. Quick and easy to make, work well and you can always recover the materials used later.

[rad14701]

I see several flaws in the design presented, most of which have been pointed out... The flaw I see is that the needle valve controlling reflux is mounted so low that it only returns the reflux back into the boiler rather than as high up in the structured packing as possible... This issue suggests to me that the OP doesn't have an adequate understanding of the overall theory behind distillation, at least from a reflux column perspective... If this is the case then valuable time is being wasted on flawed designs when it could be better spent on researching and gaining the knowledge required to practice this great yet complicated hobby...

[Odin]

VPOWER, Rad,

I achieve pure vodka results with a CM that does not have cooling above but in/around/thru the packing. The problem is that reflux management is difficult if there at all. Given all the tubing, there are easier ways to build your own. If vodka is your thing, why not a VM or VM/LM combo?

Odin.

[VPOWER]

Thankseveryone for your input.. apreciatd .. seems the consensus is on the VM style still... i will rethink my design after i review those forums

[WalkingWolf]

. . . i will rethink my design after i review those forums

If we could get all the new folks to drink a bottle of this on entry the job here would be much easier.

Welcome to HD VPOWER -- I can already tell you got good spirits in your future.

[VPOWER]

So i reviewed the newbie guides to building a column, VM LM and CM, and still (no pun intended) would like to go with the CM, Althou im considering moving the Condenser outlet from the top of the column to just below the upper temp. control coil (bout 4 inches down). With about 50" of packing in a 3" column i will be getting 17:1 ratio, which i think is enough, but is it too much? i know its a complicated design, but i have a 3rd yr plumbing apprentice helping me out ... I will be making neutral spirits and water is not an issue. As far as the condenser i coiled the 3/4" copper tube but the walls caved in, so for my size of still what size coil should i be looking @( if a coil at all)? and would glass ones work i found a few on ebay bout 40$ -60$ 12"...

Thanks for your replies, I hope to be cooking by the end of the month......

[Bushman]

Keep it simple, I think you have too many things going on that will effect temp control. Not only is your design complicated and harder to build but will be way more expensive and I am afraid you will not be satisfied with the results you get (my opinion)!

[maheel]

have a think about building a bok mate, they are easy and work well

CM is a pain in the ARS# i reckon, but in the end it's whatever floats your boat hey

[Ayay]

If you know what all the parts do and how to orchestrate it, I don't! So many valves to adjust and temperatures to look at.

Most of us begin with a heat controller....or add a single valve, column, and thermometer...great for a year's worth of learning if you include learning how to brew and make cuts.

Kinda like building a ferrari for getting your 'L' plates.

[sammybear]

Why do you have 2 cooling coils (I'm mostly curious as to the cooling coil in the middle of your packing)?

[Coaster]

@ VPOWER,

You gots two Forum threads on exactly the same topic. Your first one titled “NEW FIRST” was started on Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:21AM and then your second one “NEW FIRST... In the making” was started on Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:43AM.

You need to contact a Forum Moderator and have both of your threads combined into just one Forum thread. This makes it easier for Forum Members to respond to your inquiry.

Regards,
Coaster

[rad14701]

@ VPOWER,

You gots two Forum threads on exactly the same topic. Your first one titled “NEW FIRST” was started on Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:21AM and then your second one “NEW FIRST... In the making” was started on Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:43AM.

You need to contact a Forum Moderator and have both of your threads combined into just one Forum thread. This makes it easier for Forum Members to respond to your inquiry.

Regards,
Coaster

Topics merged...