still running by computer?

[hstuurman]

I'm not a computerwizard and have a very little knowledge of elictricity, but I'm wondering if it is possible to run a still by computer.
This is my idea:
conact a thermo with an USB to a computer, and let it register the temperature. Would be cool to see the temperature in a graphic. But the nest is to controle the heat by computer. Is anyone overhere smart enough to say if this is possible, and so how do you do this? Do you need special software?

[rad14701]

You would need special software to monitor, calculate, and make adjustments... Yes, it can be done... It's not practical to do so, however... We don't run stills by temperature, per se, we run them by the volume and purity of the spirits produced... So then you get into the whole measuring output and reflux mess... Do you also regulate coolant flow based on various readings...??? See, it quickly starts getting over-complicated...

This idea pops up several times a year...

[Prairiepiss]

This idea pops up several times a year...

And I still have not seen anyone post that they have successfully made one work.

And computers can't man a fire extinguisher. Properly. Imo

[Odin]

Friend of mine is an electronics wizzard. Makes Einstein look like an ass. He is building one for me: Triac with Pic, feedback loop on output to correct Triac, temperature readings on boiler, gas temp, output temp, and coolant. Programmable in such a way that the computer heats up in such a way that boiling is achieved quickly and, depending on strip/spirit run and pot/fractionating, power management. We are looking for powermanagement/coolingmanagement to obtain column equilibrium. The small temp change after fores are out should trigger hearts collection. Temp rise or fall after that, indicating tails, will be another trigger to adjust cooling flow as well as energy input. Challenging to me, because I have 2 left hands. Not too difficult, my friend says, because ... and than a lot of electronics talk I hardly understand. Henk, Rad, mr. Piss, I will keep you posted. Henk are you okay if I do that in this threat?

Odin.

[Prairiepiss]

How will the computer know when it is boiling? Since the boiling point will be ever changing.

From a techy side I understand the want to do this.
But from the safety and the hobby side I don't get it.
I don't see a set it and forget it machine ever producing a good product. I haven't seen feel and smell sensors that would be needed. There are always variables that a computer can't compensate for. Without a tremendous amount of sensors and programming.

It would be like building a motorcycle with autopilot. What's the use of it. The fun of riding is riding it.

[Odin]

Mr. Piss,

Yeah, I am with you. Not being a tecky myself. It is just about the challenge!

Odin.

[hstuurman]

Ok let me be more specifik, I like to control the heat. cuts are gonna be made by hand. I'm not thinking about controlling a pot still (at the first moment) but a VM (which first have to be build )

[KY1792]

I have tried to keep quite but since I have a dog in this fight I may as well add to the topic at hand;

First I will reiterate what the mentors and lessor gods have said - paraphrased "No amount of automation is an alternative to a watchful eye"

I made a thread back in July (http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=22842) and the same warning was given then and bears repeating.

To expound upon my last thread using simple temperature controls and timers as nothing but eye candy and a dead mans switch I have just bought a PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) it does the same thing but just costs more money, and is not for the faint of heart or techno disadvantaged.

First PLCs are much easier to integrate to real world controls than PCs (Personal Computer) which need specialized programs and interface cards whereas PLCs use simple ladder logic and real world output/inputs. The PLC I bought (shown below) has 40 discrete input and output along with 4 analog ins and outs, the 6" touch screen gives me thousands of HMI (Human Machine Interface) options for only $800 .

I can also run recipes, trending, data logging, or even SCADA (Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition) via the RS485 port link - up to 128 separate devices to my personal computer. Ethernet and IP control via the internet is also an option. I could in theory make booze from a single button tapped on my android!

My program in reality will take my data from known washes / mashes and output the correct temperature control algorithm for a known volume at a known abv, changing the the power via the controller to a given set point at the right time - all while I watch and applaud my efforts. I have also integrated a "Dead Man" switch that if not acknowledged every 15 minutes will automatically shut down the system.

Of course this is all ridiculousness, my pot still needs neither a temperature gauge or parrot - just a bit of taste and smell from time to time.

[Odin]

Wow! That looks great!

[KY1792]

How will the computer know when it is boiling? Since the boiling point will be ever changing.

Impossible without known variables and mass/weight reduction. A very complicated and expensive beast.

From a techy side I understand the want to do this. But from the safety and the hobby side I don't get it.

The hobby side still says tastes and smell ... period. Automated Safety which by code requires double redundant supervisory circuits has nothing on human interactions.

I don't see a set it and forget it machine ever producing a good product. I haven't seen feel and smell sensors that would be needed. There are always variables that a computer can't compensate for. Without a tremendous amount of sensors and programming.

A greater man then you first said this, his name was Pissface, and like you had the greater good in mind. Sensors fail every day - my task is to fix them - our million dollar robots crash all the time, even with a computer it can take the entire day to figure out why.

It would be like building a motorcycle with autopilot. What's the use of it. The fun of riding is riding it.

Absolutely, being in control is the fun - automating and sitting back to watch your red headed step child turn into your given wife may just be the horror needed to be (gulp) sober.

[KY1792]

Wow! That looks great!

Thanks Odin, appreciate the kudos - I have been doing computer automation for 30+ years and on principle alone owe it to myself.

You should see the solar water and voltaic system using computer control that I am building - perhaps it needs a new thread as I digress.

[tomgndallas]

Friend of mine is an electronics wizzard. Makes Einstein look like an ass. He is building one for me: Triac with Pic, feedback loop on output to correct Triac, temperature readings on boiler, gas temp, output temp, and coolant. Programmable in such a way that the computer heats up in such a way that boiling is achieved quickly and, depending on strip/spirit run and pot/fractionating, power management. We are looking for powermanagement/coolingmanagement to obtain column equilibrium. The small temp change after fores are out should trigger hearts collection. Temp rise or fall after that, indicating tails, will be another trigger to adjust cooling flow as well as energy input. Challenging to me, because I have 2 left hands. Not too difficult, my friend says, because ... and than a lot of electronics talk I hardly understand. Henk, Rad, mr. Piss, I will keep you posted. Henk are you okay if I do that in this threat?

Odin.

Looks like Mr. Piss stuck, sorry about that PP, oh no another good one!

[AKAAB]

FWIW - USB Temp probe...

http://www.vernier.com/products/sensors ... e-sensors/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow