Is there an electrician in the house...

[rgreen2002]

Good evening all...

I am hoping I can get a little help with the new project. I have acquired my 15.5g keg and will be assembling a 2 inch boka with a 48 inch packed column (I have some questions there to so I will open another thread in the column builds section). Next week I will start putting holes in it for the electricity I wish to introduce. I WAS going to go 220v which would have entailed adding a breaker and an outlet (I was willing to have an electrician take this off my hands). However, I have noticed my breaker panel has no free space. I took the front panel off to be sure and yes...this is sadly the case. This I believe will delay the 240v for now.

In the interim I was planning on following the advice given to many here: go with 110 but prepare for 220. I plan to put two 5500W elements into the keg perpendicularly and run them at 110v (for the 1375 x 2 or 2750W). One of the elements I plan on plugging straight into the outlet and using for heating up only. The other I plan on connecting to a controller. I have 2 separate outlets both on separate 20a breakers (that carry no other load) I plan on using for the job. They should draw 1375/110 = 12.5 amps if I'm doing the math correctly. (I may replace the outlets with gfci 15a).

For the controller I plan on using this SCR:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC110V-220V-75A ... SwEeFVIeKP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

AC110V 220V 75A 10000W SCR

...and wire it this way...

WD - I might add a switch as well...

I will see how the controller heats up and plan on adding a new heat sink and/or a fan In the controller box... haven't decided on DC or AC fan yet...

Wiring the element/controller I planned on for now just using 12 gauge extension cord from HFT (if I do go 220v I will spring for new wiring):

http://www.harborfreight.com/household/ ... 61864.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

One directly into the element and the other through the controller with the above wiring diagram.

This is stretching my understanding of electrical work to its max right now so does this sound OK to everyone? Please let me know if i'm missing something here...

[FreeMountainHermit]

Add a sub panel to your existing panel or run off your electric clothes dryer outlet and you will be good to go with 220v

[T-Pee]

If the breakers are the thick ones (~.75" thick) they can be changed out for thinner ones where two will fit into the space of one.
Take two of the I I breakers and replace with two breakers that look like this IIII. Take the two middle ones and pick your 240 from those as they will be on separate buss bars then attach the original 120v circuits to the outside two breakers.

tp

[rgreen2002]

Add a sub panel to your existing panel or run off your electric clothes dryer outlet and you will be good to go with 220v

FMH - I work in the basement and the dryer is on the first floor so I can't get to that outlet. As far as a subpanel... there is actually already what I thought was sub panel run right near where I would work... I was very happy and I pulled the cover off the panel and found this:

Sub panel...?

This is run from two tandem 100a breakers over 2 lines of romex 12/2 wire. I don't see no stinkin' breakers... I don't know what this is so I quietly put the cover back on and stepped away. I was planning on having the electrician look at it.

If the breakers are the thick ones (~.75" thick) they can be changed out for thinner ones where two will fit into the space of one.
Take two of the I I breakers and replace with two breakers that look like this IIII. Take the two middle ones and pick your 240 from those as they will be on separate buss bars then attach the original 120v circuits to the outside two breakers.

tp

TP - This was exactly my plan...for my electrician in the future.

I THINK...(and that's stretching it with my knowledge) that the 2 breakers could be changed to 2 tandem breakers and then run the existing outlets off one set of tandem and a new 240v on the other... I THINK... Whew..

When it comes to electrical work my only true knowledge is knowing that I know nothing...oh..and to call a pro!

Thanks for the help guys!

[Sungy]

This is run from two tandem 100a breakers over 2 lines of romex 12/2 wire. I don't see no stinkin' breakers... I don't know what this is so I quietly put the cover back on and stepped away. I was planning on having the electrician look at it.

WOW. Hope that's a typo. 12 gauge wire can only handle 20 amps. The object in the picture is a relay. The wires on the side are the control power and the top and bottom wires are what is being switched on/off.

[Snackson]

Add a sub panel to your existing panel or run off your electric clothes dryer outlet and you will be good to go with 220v

subp.jpg

This is run from two tandem 100a breakers over 2 lines of romex 12/2 wire. I don't see no stinkin' breakers... I don't know what this is so I quietly put the cover back on and stepped away. I was planning on having the electrician look at it.

That looks like a contactor with a 120v coil. Pretty much a regular switch somewhere when flipped will energize the cool send power through from top/bottom to whatever it powers that is higher voltage/amperage than the switch can handle. Are there any switches nearby? Flip the switch while listening for the contactor to cycle.

[bearriver]

Two 100 amp breakers?

You need a paid electrician in that hot mess!!!

[rgreen2002]

Two 100 amp breakers?

You need a paid electrician in that hot mess!!!

LOL! I couldn't agree more. Thats why I was saying im going to need someone in to sort it out before I go 220V.... which brings me back to my original question... does my 110v solution seem sound?

[Snackson]

Two 100 amp breakers?

You need a paid electrician in that hot mess!!!

LOL! I couldn't agree more. Thats why I was saying im going to need someone in to sort it out before I go 220V.... which brings me back to my original question... does my 110v solution seem sound?

Yes it looks good. I would ground the controller as well, but you diagram looks good and will work fine.

[rgreen2002]

Yes it looks good. I would ground the controller as well, but you diagram looks good and will work fine.

Thanks Snackson. Appreciated! Love the avatar..."YOU BOYS LIKE MEEXEECO?"

[Snackson]

Yes it looks good. I would ground the controller as well, but you diagram looks good and will work fine.

Thanks Snackson. Appreciated! Love the avatar..."YOU BOYS LIKE MEEXEECO?"

"Good enough to fu€* your mother!" Great movie, can't wait for the second one.

Edit- with the elements being mounted vertically you need to ensure they will remain covered throughout the run. Not usually an issue on stripping but could be on spirit runs.

[rgreen2002]

"Ugh...stinks like sex in here"...

If I use a plastic/resin box do I need to ground it and what is the best way to ground the box?

[Snackson]

"Ugh...stinks like sex in here"...

If I use a plastic/resin box do I need to ground it and what is the best way to ground the box?

I built one for a friend using this and used an alligator clip to connect from the controller to ground, just clipped it to the protective screen on it. Not necessary, but added protection. If you're plugging into GFCI, not really needed.

[rgreen2002]

I built one for a friend using this and used an alligator clip to connect from the controller to ground, just clipped it to the protective screen on it. Not necessary, but added protection. If you're plugging into GFCI, not really needed.

Perfect. Sounds good. Thanks again Snackson... I will be on the lookout for ST 2!

[rgreen2002]

So I was thinking about a few minor changes. I bought a voltmeter/ammeter for the controller and I alsw wanted to install a switch to power the whole thing down if needed. This is how I was considring wiring the whole thing...

A/V meter with power switch

Pardon the MS paint work... its all I have working right now.

Does this look OK to everybody? As in will I get appropriate readings AND not burn the house down?

[masonsjax]

I'm not an electrician, but I would say to ground your heatsink and switch. Otherwise LGTM.

[thatmaker]

+1 to T-Pee

Replace 4 of your Single pole breakers with 4 slim ones, that will give you 2 extra spaces in which to install a 240V breaker. All looks good except your ammeter won't read proper unless you break that short circuit in parallel with it.

[T-Pee]

+1 to T-Pee

Replace 2 of your Single pole breakers with 4 slim ones, that will give you 2 extra spaces in which to install a 240V breaker.

Fixed that for ya.

tp

[thatmaker]

+1 to T-Pee

Replace 4 of your Single pole breakers with 4 slim ones, that will give you 2 extra spaces in which to install a 240V breaker.

Fixed that for ya.

tp

right back at ya remember you need 2 free spaces after the swap.

EDIT: are you thinking of using 2 single pole breakers as a double pole breaker? In that case it would make sense.

[T-Pee]

Holy sh... Ok. Let's do it this way:

Ya take two of these

s-l300.jpg (5.58 KiB) Viewed 3865 times

Replace with two of these

$_35.JPG (9.7 KiB) Viewed 3865 times

So that it now looks like this

ivgZF.jpg (17.24 KiB) Viewed 3865 times

The white and black from the wide standard breakers of the first pic go to the outside two slim breakers of the third pic and the new 240 circuit goes to the inside two breakers of the third pic setup after after tying the two center breakers together with the appropriate device.

Clear now?

tp (going the extra 20 miles)

[RedwoodHillBilly]

So I was thinking about a few minor changes. I bought a voltmeter/ammeter for the controller and I alsw wanted to install a switch to power the whole thing down if needed. This is how I was considring wiring the whole thing...

10kW_SCR_diagram switch.jpg

Pardon the MS paint work... its all I have working right now.

Does this look OK to everybody? As in will I get appropriate readings AND not burn the house down?

I think that you should put the voltmeter on the input side instead of the output side. That way you will get a good reading of the applied voltage (instead of the pwm voltage) and the ammeter will integrate the current. I believe that this will give you a more accurate reading.

You won't burn the house down, but remember to ground all exposed metal.

[raketemensch]

This is what I used:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001QN ... ge_o01_s00" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

No local suppliers carried them, Amazon was my only option.

[rgreen2002]

thatmaker and t-pee.... fantastic help! I appreciate it.

Now... I did mention my understanding of electrical work is well....minimal. I went down to the panel to take a look.

Panel

If I'm correct... the model number TM 4020 CCU suggests I have 40 spaces and 20 circuits - confusing to me as I thought I should have more circuits than spaces (or at least equal)... unless I'm backward...
I cannot tell on the wiring diagram where I can install tandem breakers

Breakers

Yet you can see I already have a few tandem breakers installed.

Lastly I have read before that if I have a GE panel I need GE breakers... is this the case? I can see on the panel the recommended GE breaker types so if that's the case it should be simple.

RedwoodHillBilly - Thanks for the help and I see what you are saying. NOW... I picked up this A/V meter...

Magnet?

I'm not used to this type of meter so I'm not sure how this goes in line...

diagram

I interpret this as the hot side going through the magnet...?

I appreciate all the help looking into my wiring here folks!

[thatmaker]

Hi rgreen,

The thing you called a magnet is an inductor (pretty close). You'll want to wire it up exactly as it is in the photo. Technically with 240, both wires are "hot". It doesn't matter which one you put through the inductor.

T-Pee's way will work but you may get a mismatch in amp ratings.

If you're going to work on your panel, you have to know what you're doing. Otherwise call an electrician.

It will be much simpler to use one 5500W element at 240V than 2 at 120V.

Buy 2 15 amp tandem breakers and one 30 amp 2 pole breaker that are compatible with your panel.

Get a flashlight.

Turn of your main breaker!

Remove 4 of the 15 amp breakers in the lower right portion of your panel.

Reconnect the 4 circuits you disconnected to the 2 new 15 amp tandem breakers.

Install a 240V 30 amp receptacle of your choice with the new 30 amp 2 pole breaker in the 2 spare slots. Use at least 10 gauge wire.

[rad14701]

HOLD ON THERE...!!!

Please, let's NOT be giving electrical panel advise here in these forums...!!! Let's just not go there...!!! I don't care how qualified someone feels they are, it's just not worth the risk...!!!

[thecroweater]

Unless you are a qualified sparky I really don't get why you guys want to do this shit yourselves. You are dead a long time and some mate, loved one or child gets killed because you thought it'll be right and yaz are history, as in criminal negligence manslaughter big house with you arse at the cleaners history.

[T-Pee]

Ok, you all. Here's my offer.

As a retired maintenance electrician of 45+ years I will come to your house regardless of where you live and install the breakers
for your new electric rig free of charge although a pint tip would not be refused.
All you have to do is get me to your door and back at your expense. I love to travel.

tp (almost not kidding)

[bearriver]

HOLD ON THERE...!!!

Please, let's NOT be giving electrical panel advise here in these forums...!!! Let's just not go there...!!! I don't care how qualified someone feels they are, it's just not worth the risk...!!!

More than 30,000 non-fatal shock accidents are reported by medical professionals every year. Some people outside that figure (however small) went straight to the morgue.

[Badmotivator]

Edit- with the elements being mounted vertically you need to ensure they will remain covered throughout the run. Not usually an issue on stripping but could be on spirit runs.

I have vertical elements in my keg. It was an issue a few times because my minimum wash volume was over 4 gal, but I solved it by bending the elements. I broke a few before I figured it out. The trick that worked for me was to anneal the element tube with a torch and quench, bend a little, repeat. My boiler can go down to 1.5 gal safely now. Hope that helps.

[Durhommer]

20190927_183834-1.jpg

anyone want to give me the easy way to adding a 20 amp circuit breaker to this can I condense some of the existing to the tandem style breakers I just want to get more power to my new site as its on a shared 15 amp my thoughts were to get a single pole 20 amp breaker from local hardware store 8 bucks...100 ft 14 2 romex 40 bucks a cheapo plastic j box 3 bucks a 20 amp outlet 7 bucks a outlet faceplate 98 cents.someone please tell me if if that wouldn't work just off the pic and what I said