Is it OK to allow all of the heads in on a pure sugar wash?

[skow69]

Gotta be a troll. Nobody could be that arogant and stupid by accident.

EDIT: NOBODY could be "that" AROGANT (and) STUPID by "ACCIDENT."

[Right Lightning]

Wow, I don't regret that I HAVE already started "in" on putting some product down since my previous post. It is definitely helping me handle what I believe to be unduely harsh critisizm. NOW I am forced to go on the defensive, which isn't some thing that I am thrilled to do. But in knowing that it HAS to be done, I think I can say what needs to be "put on the table" without my attitude going south, now that I have a little bit of looseness keeping me tempered down! In fact (gimme a few seconds here), I'll even go as far as holding one up and proposing going even looser!

OK, I'll start out by taking in the point that maybe I AM (oh no, there I go again) getting out of hand with "capping out". I'll make a mental point to try and chill on that. Now back to topic, I feel like you guys are practically sayin that it's evil or something, for even considering running 20% washes. OK, it probably is more likely to produce bad flavors, but I don't think that means it is where nobody should never-ever consider going. I polished off [at least 75-80% of it myself] 115oz of ethanol in 3 weeks, which has got to be a consumption "record" for me over such a period of time, without ever having even the slightest hint of a headache. That was without pulling anything off of the head end, mind you. And yes, I can still see just as well as I did before. To the forum's credit, I did start pulling the heads out on my 2nd batch, and now consider that maneuver to be "standard procedure". I flavored all of the 1st batch, but I decided to run clean & clear on this batch, so I can better monitor it's true flavor. But you know what, it doesn't really seem to be any different or any better, even with running only a 12% wash AND (sorry, had to allow that one) pulling the heads also. But this time around I only have 70oz to consume - quite the difference from the last batch. It's a number that I don't believe anyone out there would be happy with, knowing that the one before it went 115. The actual feeling is that of having stepped backwards - opposite of the direction that I want to go.

The other thing that causes me to believe that a 20% wash isn't all that terrible, is that the instructions that are right on the yeast package itself tell you what to do to get 20%, as if it is common practice. The "48 hours" only gets you 14%. But if you run a couple more pounds of sugar, and give it 72 more hours (3 more days), you get the full 20%. OK, my back is starting to hurt now. I'll check back tomorrow sometime.

[skow69]

OK, RL, if you are sincere, then I apologise. And if that is what you like to drink, then you are doing what works best for you. Enjoy.

[Right Lightning]

Oops, I forgot to click on "submit" last night, so that last message didn't go in until this morning. I really don't want to continue on that rant. But put yourself in my "rinky-dink" shoes. How long would your interest hold up, if you had to do 5 2 1/2 hour still runs, not including the 6th one to clean up the weaker tailish stuff that is collected seperately, per 25L fermenter batch? If the first batch produced 19oz eth per still run, but the next batch only produced between 11 and 12 oz per [2.5hr] run, then being told that is "still" too much, you should be able to see how it begins to look like it isn't worth the hassle.

I'll admit that I am hard-headed, and have been known to go against accepted "norms" all too frequently, with the "hard way" being the only way I am able to learn sometimes. You could say that if a given norm doesn't completely make sense in my head, then I am fated to "testing" it, before my head is able to come around to the full "acceptance" stage.

I'll spell it out: What doesn't make sense to me here is why it is not possible to achieve good quality from a wash that "creates" lots of eth. If you consider fermentation to be the "creation" stage, then distillation is the "purification" stage. What is wrong with taking the approach of maxing out the eth yield at the creation stage, and then using the purification stage (via pulling out additional heads & tails, using multiple X runs, and filtration) to purify the eth down to the desired level of "cleannes"?

[rad14701]

Hard headed perhaps isn't the right term... The why behind not making high gravity washes has been beaten to death in these forums but just in case you've been too lazy to do what we consider mandatory research, here we go again...

When you push for a high gravity wash, using turbo yeast, the wash generates excessive heat which imparts off tastes and smells into the wash... Maybe you aren't experienced enough to recognize this, or maybe you just don't care... That hot taste is what you get... A wash with a more reasonable potential %ABV won't be hot even at higher than safe drinking proof... It'll just taste slightly sweet and feel like it's melting into your tongue...

Does a high gravity wash produce more alcohol...??? Of course...!!! However, what it also produces is more Foreshots, Heads, and Tails, proportionately, while not producing much more clean Hearts, proportionately... So the brew shops sell fining agents to help these turbo washes clear, and activate carbon filters to help clean the distilled spirits even further... So the brew shop, or wherever, makes more profit by selling turbo yeast, fining agents, and activated carbon filtering systems and recurrent supplies... This adds more work and expense into what can be a simpler process by avoiding the greed factor...

Going on and on about how high gravity is your only viable solution because you are running such small equipment just doesn't cut it here... The combined experience here has already proven that using equipment that is impractically small, for any reason, simply isn't true justification...

I am currently running the smallest rigs I would ever recommend to anyone, and perhaps only if they have some previous experience with larger equipment... I've run 2 gallon and 4 gallon boilers, and still run a 4 gallon... But I used to run substantially larger boilers, 30 and 40 gallons, so I know the difference... I have to pay a lot closer attention to the entire process from recipe composition, fermentation, clearing, distillation, and blending in order to end up with the neutral spirits that this two member household consumes on a daily basis...

As you gain experience, and eventually graduate to using realistic equipment, which you will if this hobby holds your interest long enough, you'll come to the same conclusion that so many other novices who thought they had a better idea have realized... Size matters...!!! If you don't believe me, ask any woman willing to tell the truth... Ooppss...!!! Wrong forum...

[Prairiepiss]

Make the yeast happy and they will fart CO2 and piss ethanol.
You make them unhappy. They shit in your drink.

[T-Pee]

Make the yeast happy and they will fart CO2 and piss ethanol.
You make them unhappy. They shit in your drink.

Classic HD mantra right there.

tp

[just sayin]

Mr. PP, Genius comment. That is most succinct explanation of the process I have heard.

[Doogie]

Yes, I think the factor that is missing is the understanding of yeast - it is not a production widget, where you feed it more stuff and produces more product. It is like giving an athlete a bowl of pasta is fine to fuel up, but saying "I want more out of them" and feeding them boatloads just turns them into slobs that are not doing what you want them to do.

Sure, feed the yeast a ton ... shit, push that to 30% and just do a fast stripping run to get yer likker - crank er up and treat them like Bangledesh garment children - you will get the same results - your yeast will revolt and shit in yer drink. Yes, maybe you filter it, maybe you mix in stuff to make it taste like something else, but your fancy non-relevant tools (since you have not proven the correlation) nor your low dose test "drinking" will convince many on here that have tasted crappy likker and good likker out of home stills that your idea holds any merrits.

If you want to prove we are all wrong, do a few things (at your expense)
1) Chemically analyze your product for the crap you do not want in the drink
a) then use that to defend against current thoughts that both commercial and hobby distillers have used for many decades
2) Properly document
a) the recipe
b) the process
3) Prove that your thingies actually work - a correlation with TDS/PPM measurements to perceived purity is not accurate enough, and only serves if you sell those devices
4) If you want to really test in real world, then dont drink your 50% at a rate of 127ml/day - shit, get slam hammered I cannot remember anything or why I woke up beside these fat guys kind of drunk, then tell me how you feel - because I can drink my stuff all day long, forgetting the last 2 hours before I passed out, and get up in the morning, drink some water, and go right back at it ... lets see how you do when yer not "nursing" it.

[skow69]

wow! You tired of being lectured yet?

For me, it just amounts to personal taste. I just don't enjoy the flavor of stuff produced in that manner, and that's behind what the other guys are saying, too. But you're an adult. If that's what you like, make yourself happy.

Bangledesh garment children

Har! LMAO

[googe]

Be easier to go buy a bottle of metho and water it down . You don't understand why certain washes are done certain ways in respect to how members see there hobby. You lack the experience with developing a wash to suit your tastes, you are comparing your turbo wash to a bw you've done minimal experimenting with. You will learn in time, to treat your yeast like a baby and caress it, take it to your bosom. Go to a chef forum, and post, I can make cabonara better than you, stuff the bacon, cream, egg cracked over it at the end, I use packet cabonara nothing wrong with it, why go to all that trouble when I can do it from.a packet . The members that have posted what they have don't do it for time waisting, there passionate about there hobby and always want the best from it and want to help people get the best out of it. (condescending*).

[Ayay]

Take the heads off even if they aren't there. You never know until you take them off. You never know if you took them off until you done the cuts.

Cuts are for getting hearts. Hearts are all those things that contain no heads nor tails.

[Brendan]

That's a great analogy Googe I like the chef and packet carbonara thing...very clever.

It's true, you can technically make alcohol other ways, but not nice (gourmet) alcohol that tastes amazing

[Swamp_Donkey]

I'm weary of old post.
But pure ethanol is sweet smelling and sweet tasting.
And hard to get.

[Axdelmar]

This is by FAR the best example of what NOT to do...I really learned alot here....How cool is THAT! I too was pushing my ABV too high. Never with turbo..you all taught me that...but I did overdose my poor children with candy...and now I WILL PAY>>>> The ETHO Gods shall punish me...and so is my wife for wasting 12 pounds of sugar....I hang my head.